Go behind the scenes with Amy Allen Clark and Symbol as they reveal the untold stories, challenges, and triumphs of producing this year’s Book Gang summer season.
Go behind the scenes with Amy Allen Clark and Symbol as they reveal the untold stories, challenges, and triumphs of producing this year’s Book Gang summer season.
This week, we’re opening the curtain on our very first Summer Wrapped: Behind the Scenes episode! Amy and Symbol sit down for a candid, honest conversation about how the Book Gang team built this year’s summer reading season that included eighteen incredible voices.
You’ll hear about the careful curation process for selecting each title (and guest!), the unexpected technical hurdles and logistics that go into every episode, and the real-life stories you never hear on-mic—from heartwarming guest moments to personal challenges and family curveballs. We also recap each of our summer author guests, highlighting what made their conversations special and our favorite listener feedback that brought us so much joy.
What’s Inside This Summer Wrapped Episode:
📚 Curating the Summer Season: Amy shares how the summer reading guide comes together, from screening dozens of advance copies and weighing reader feedback to mapping out a lineup that balances debuts, backlist gems, and under-the-radar voices. She discusses the existential question of whether summer guides are still needed, the realities of book content overwhelm, and how the team ultimately crafts a list that feels both meaningful and manageable for listeners.
📚 Behind-the-Scenes Minutiae That Might Surprise You: Amy and Symbol pull back the curtain on all the surprising details that made each of the eighteen summer episodes possible. They describe the reality of wrangling unpredictable author tech setups, coordinating with publicists and publishing teams (sometimes through a maze of emails), and building a signature pitch for each of their guests (which Amy practices in some unusual locations) that drives book sales for their featured authors. You’ll find out how her media training guides conversations through a warm, unscripted approach that helps every guest shine on their show day.
📚 A Guest-by-Guest Recap: The team goes through a detailed celebration of every summer guest, spotlighting what made each author and conversation special. Amy and Symbol highlight their most memorable moments, hilarious bloopers, emotional breakthroughs fostered through these stories, and the unique novels that shaped this year's Book Gang community. We indulge in the listener reactions, behind-the-scenes surprises, and favorite off-mic stories that were unforgettable for our team. You can experience an audio surprise Symbol made for Amy that has never been aired before.
BONUS BOOK LIST: Patrons will receive a printable featuring the next fifteen voices coming to Book Gang this fall—a sneak peek at the authors and books that will shape our upcoming season (COMING SOON). Join us behind the paywall for this exclusive preview and help keep independent podcasting alive!
Meet the Book Gang Team
Amy Allen Clark is the host of the Book Gang podcast and founder of MomAdvice.com. Symbol is Book Gang’s behind-the-scenes editor, sound designer, and show notes maestro, dedicated to making each episode shine. Together, they work to curate, produce, and share the best in bookish conversation. Thank you, patrons! You make our work here possible!
SUPPORT OUR SHOW: Download the 2026 Summer Reading Guide (57-Pages of Bookish Fun With 70 Tried-and-True Recommendations): http://buymeacoffee.com/bookgangpodcast/e/535779
SUPPORT OUR SHOW: Join the Book Gang- patreon.com/momadvice
SUPPORT OUR SHOW: Make a One-Time Donation in ANY AMOUNT- buymeacoffee.com/bookgangpodcast
2026 MomAdvice Book Club Books (All 12 Selections)
We Don’t Talk About Carol by Kristen L. Berry
Next of Kin by Kia Abdullah
Saoirse by Charleen Hurtubise
Single Girls by John Searles
With Friends Like You by Amy Chozick
Famous Men by Julie Buntin
The Sunflower Boys by Sam Wachman
Scandalous Women by Gill Paul
A Splintering by Dur e Aziz Amna
American Fever by Dur e Aziz Amna
Finding Grace by Loretta Rothschild
What Kind of Paradise by Janelle Brown
Enormous Wings by Laurie Frankel
This Is How It Always Is by Laurie Frankel
Sundays with Writers - Laurie Frankel
The Foursome by Christina Baker Kline
Orphan Train by Christina Baker Kline
The Burning Side by Sarah Damoff
The Bright Years by Sarah Damoff
Land by Maggie O’Farrell
Returns and Exchanges by Kayla Rae Whitaker
The Sign for Home by Blair Fell
Harvesting Rosewater by Paria Hassouri
The Two Wills by Blair Fell
Disco Witches of Fire Island by Blair Fell
Skin Contact by Elisa Faison
Now That We Think About It podcast
The People We Keep by Allison Larkin
Home of the American Circus by Allison Larkin
If I Ruled the World by Amy DuBois Barnett
Daughters of Shandong by Eve J Chung
Lady X by Molly Fader
The Sunshine Girls by Molly Fader
Little Movements by Laura Morrow
Amy’s IG Summer stack book photo
The Seekers of Deer Creek by Thao Thai
The Half Life by Rachel Beanland
City of Girls by Elizabeth Gilbert
Bookshop.org pays a 10% commission on every sale and matches it with 10% to support independent bookstores.
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Book Gang Podcast Transcript:
Symbol
Hi, my name is Symbol and I work for Amy and the Book Gang.
Amy
And I'm Amy Allen Clark, the host of the Book Gang podcast, where we celebrate debuts, backlist books, and under the radar book gems. And this is our first Summer Wrapped. So we thought it would be really fun to talk about what people don't know goes on behind the scenes here and the work and heart that goes into each of these shows. This year we had 18 guests and it was a huge undertaking, I think, for both of us.
People don't often get to hear what you do here. So can you explain a little bit about what your role is here with Book Gang?
Symbol
Absolutely. So after Amy does the hard part of recording with the guests and coming up with the questions, then I take over and I work on the sound and the editing and then I just put it all together. I do the show notes and then I send it back to her for the final touches.
Amy
What's the biggest challenge you think with editing this show?
Symbol
The biggest challenge is that every author uses a different recording device. So the sound on every show is different and has special needs. And just figuring out what works best for each recording is a little tricky sometimes.
Amy
Yeah, I would agree with that. We honestly don't know what we're getting into. I don't ask an author what they have equipment wise. Maybe we should start doing that before they record.
I do feel like one part of the screening that we do is when I'm going through the process of selection with guests, I do look and try to find some type of video footage or past interviews with them so we know what they sound like, if they what we may be troubleshooting as far as content goes. You know, do they have a hard time talking about their work? Will I have to work harder like personality-wise if someone is more introverted. So those are the things that we're looking for. But on the day that they log in, we're often like thrown into a little bit of a spiral at the top of the show, which is something I think you get to hear when we're trying to figure out like what are you logging in on? And, you know, just troubleshooting things like that. If there's a lag, we had several people yeah from other countries that came on. And so, you know, just orchestrating all of that was really interesting this year.
Symbol
It was, but I think that we did a okay job and I don't think the listeners got to experience any of those bad parts.
Amy
Yeah, I know. There's there could be a whole blooper reel of bad parts.
Symbol
There really could Yeah.
Amy
So well let's get into this. I think the first question I was pondering is do we need this? Do we really need a summer reading guide anymore? Are you overwhelmed by book content?
Symbol
You know on the social media page, there are so many people who are trying to get interesting books into your hands, and I always feel like I'm missing out. So it's a lot when you get a large guide. However, when it's from someone you trust, it does make my life a little bit easier getting my library holds reserved or knowing what money I'm gonna spend books on, what I'm gonna ask for for my birthday. That's a nice list to have.
Amy
Yeah. I was kind of having an existential crisis that this was no longer needed because I'm overwhelmed with book content. And I feel like when I open Instagram, I already feel behind, like a hundred percent behind on reading. And I did not know if this is becoming a vanity project. Like do I do it because I want to talk about how hard it is to do it and like burden my family with like, I just can't get through all these books and I'm having a hard time. And also, I would say that I was starting to get discouraged because a lot of the books were not very good this year. And I think that that has really reflected in conversations with other bookstagrammers and readers that we have been talking to that. People felt pretty similarly. They felt a little duped.
Symbol
Some of your guests that have a bookstore background had mentioned the same things.
Amy
Yeah, yeah. So we were kind of wondering, does that does that even matter? And when you're putting forth that much effort to try to find things, it just made it so much more complex. And that's why this year we did more backlist picks that than we do typically and and that really helped round things out. But we also asked our readers like what do they want? Do they need this? Is it does it even matter?
Symbol
We did. We asked and we got some feedback. Heather says "I too feel overwhelmed by many of the summer reading guides, but I think that I refer to yours the most out of all the ones that I get." also "The Book Gang summer reading list is the only one I purchased because I love the curation. Honestly, I'm still trying to get through all the recs from 2025. I print it out and reference it as books fade from library popularity. But between the book lists and the Fully Booked episodes, I've got plenty of content to keep my library holds at the max. I can see that the summer reading guide is a huge undertaking, though. I care about the book recs, but also know there were other ideas to devote your time and energy to that would bring just as much joy. Example, the lengthier exploration of Jane Eyre, which I am really looking forward to." Us too, Kate. "Maybe I land in the category of if it brings you joy, continue to pull together the summer reading guide, because we do love it, and know that if it's time to evolve, I for one support that too." That was Kate..
Amy
I think this was why I decided to keep pushing on and it also became a bit of a challenge to make something that that people really want to spend the money on. You know, I'm having a hard time, with my own finances. My husband lost his job and so I understand that books are like thirty five dollars each and they are so pricey. They are so it's so pricey and we love that we get to support bookshops and all of the good things, but also it's so expensive to be a human right now. And it would make me really, really sad if people were spending money on books that weren't very good. And I hope that, this, summer reading guide, which is like seven dollars, really helps them save not only money but time because, as a midlife person, like there isn't a lot of time, right? And so we are constantly thinking about those kinds of things for our readers.
Symbol
And if you're gonna spend thirty five dollars on a book, you wanna make sure it's a book you're gonna enjoy. And I feel that you have a universal selection. I can always find something that I want to read from your lists. Well, yes. I'm not just saying that because I work for you.
Amy
And she's on the payroll. So thank you so much for saying that.
Symbol
So as we hear from Larry every month, there are so many books that come out. So many books. How did you pick the eighteen that made it to the guide?
Amy
Yeah. So the eighteen that went into the guide. First I would say I'm definitely someone who I'm getting a ton of pitches. You see my emails. It's crazy right now. and I think there is a real hunger to get authors front and center, which we didn't have before. We were scouting more people. That's right. That was us like reaching out and like sending emails and trying to coordinate things.
Symbol
Amy was cold calling.
Amy
I was cold calling everybody. I was just like lighting up everybody's DMs and they were like, no, this woman. And I don't let up. If I make a decision that I really want somebody, I will do everything. Ashley Huston? I know, right? I know. I'm just gonna keep at it. But you know, it was like one of those things where I start out with like everything that had been pitched to me. I start making requests on NetGalley, which is where you can get early access to books. And I give each book about 50 pages and decide whether or not that's a book that I think would be a good one for the summer reading guide. And then I'm trying to decide whether or not this book is worthy like of a conversation, right? You can have a great experience with a book.
But there needs to be enough meat on the bone to talk about something to like actually fill an entire hour with someone. And then I start making a list of contenders, of people that I'm interested in. And then I go on this is so I do have OCD. So I just wanna say that. That is a that is something that I struggle with. So this becomes like almost an obsession to figure out what I want the season to look like. And I am a blogger by nature, so I'm used to content planning. A lot of people wouldn't be able to say like, I'm gonna map out three or four months at a time. But that actually works in my wheelhouse because I don't want to think about it after it's all set. Like I once things are all laid out, I know who's gonna be there and and we don't have to think about those kinds of things anymore. And then it's just building content around it. But I know like the initial surge of that is a lot.
And then I spend my lunch hours watching every clip of that author that I can find on YouTube and going through their Instagram profile, seeing how comfortable they feel with talking about their book, what kinds of themes they're touching on, and I start making a little notes of what I would ask them beyond whatever the interviews that they've already done.
And then I start gathering their author headshots. And so we use Trello behind the scenes, which is almost to me like it's like a Pinterest board of sorts, but you can make a column and say, these are like the people that we're considering, and we set that up for every season. That's something that Symbol and I share together. And I can see everyone's faces together, right? And so I can see, do we have BIPOC voices here?
What genres are we covering? We put the genre and like what the book title is. Do we have marginalized voices? Do we have people from the LGBTQ community? Do we have a couple of backlist books? So I'm looking at it more from a visual perspective,
Symbol
Like a magazine.
Amy
Exactly. Well, I mean, and that's why I enjoyed talking to Amy Dubois Barnett not so much from If I Ruled the World, because that's exactly how I approach it. I look at it as what does it say about us? Like when someone sees when they land on my Instagram profile, do they see a diverse group of people? Do they see interesting books they haven't seen? We do go after more mid list writers, which means I'm not looking for Yesteryear. I don't think I would enjoy that conversation because that conversation is like been had so many times.
Symbol
you can listen to That author on so many different places. And on TV.
Amy
I I think that there is a energy about debut novelists and people who have a real hunger for people to get their books in your hands. And so those are the people that we go after to try to help support that. And the enthusiasm I think really comes through on the other end.
Symbol
I agree. Definitely.
Amy
Yeah. So anyways, that's how we we mapped it out. We had 18 people. I know that I've hit all of the categories and then we we go from there and then I start contacting everyone.Behind the scenes.
Symbol
What is the most challenging part of organizing the series?
Amy
Yeah, the most I think the hardest part with the series is that I have to write the pitch first before I do the author reach out. So the reason why we did that is because we've been doing this for a couple of years now, right? we would have authors on and they did not know how to pitch their book.
So we are off on a bad start with their interview. I'm not saying that every author can't do that. We do have some people that have marketing backgrounds, media trained people.
Symbol
But that is a debut author situation. So you're actually giving them a little bit of media training.
Amy
Yes. And I think too that like the seasoned authors, they're saying the same thing every show. Right. And so then basically why would you listen?
You know, that's how I feel anyways. If you're in the book world and you have a favorite author and you've already heard an interview with them, what new information are you going to get if they know that canned response? And I think that goes back to covering like movies and TV for MomAdvice.com I used to go on those junket circuits and you could see like all all the light go out of the eyes of the people.
Because it's like I've already said this before. I say this all the time. Like I already know this.
Symbol
I remember this one story you told about Molly Ringwald.
Amy
Yeah, Molly Ringwald. That is a really good example. I had to interview her about, you know, her well, she was there to just be interviewed, and everyone that came in that room only talked about Pretty in Pink. And they were asking her, like, how how was it? You know, and I was imagining someone has to talk about this thing that they did when they were a kid and they've done a plethora of other things after. when I got to interview her for my blog, she was so excited was that I had read her books. And then she lit up. She didn't want to talk anymore about Pretty in Pink. But when I started talking to her about her work.
It was like she pulled her husband in, we were having this dynamic conversation. And I do think that when you are really curious about and love someone's work, that that pulls through to the author. And so my goal is that I write a pitch for their book so that the author doesn't have to do that. But it does require the pitch to be done before I reach out because I decide what questions I'm gonna ask based upon how I pitch that book. So if I am
I am moved by something in a scene or a quotation or a theme within that book, then I'm going to build a conversation around that. And so I have to write the pitch. And then when we send the author questions, those questions are developed knowing that I have already written this pitch for the writer. And then I just tell the writer, you don't have to come here and do an elevator pitch. That's exhausting. Like, and it's the immediate relief. I mean, I wish people could see the videos of how like people are like, thank god. Like I don't want to do that. Like I hate doing that.
Yeah. And it it just it never lands the way that I hope for. So I want to drive it, but I'll like it's kind of embarrassing, but
I will give the pitch like on my way to get my drink at Panera. I'm talking to myself in my car because I'm like, how would I sell that book to someone else? Because I believe that the pitch is what actually drives the book sale, that people enjoy the conversation. But even if they come on and they just get a pitch and hear about a book, I feel like my work, I did the best that I could to sell that book for the author. And so I take the responsibility on
To do that because I want them to sound their best and I want them to talk about the things they care about and I want them to get to talk about their craft. And I don't want them to have to think about stupid stuff like elevator pitches.
Symbol
Yes, exactly. So you plan all of these things out. Were there obstacles? What was the biggest challenge that you had when we put all of this together?
Amy
Well, let's see. I had a whole summer of fun planned. I was planning to actually go deeper with our books. So my goal was I was going to have this author interview and then I was going to do a solo show because I do a book list every week for our patrons. And even if you're not a patron, we give you that book list for free, but we build around the themes of the book.
And I had planned to do a solo show where I was going to pitch three books from the book list to remind people the book list exists. It takes a lot of time. I actually spend most of my week after the recording is done on the book list to make that piece of media for everyone.
Symbol
They're really awesome book lists, then
Amy
They are really good and I put a lot of love into it.
Symbol
And you read all of the books, which is unusual for a lot of book lists on the internet. Not an AI creation.
Amy
It's not AI. And so I spent a lot of time on that. And so I had planned all of these other components. And luckily we had all the authors already interviewed. So we started in I think March was when we had started. So everybody was already inside of our virtual studio had been recorded.
And on Father's Day weekend, my mom had a stroke and we didn't know if she was going to make it. And so I was already in fall season planning. So I had already reached out to authors for that portion. And I was going to be doing that behind the scenes. And then, like basically that happened. And then I don't know, maybe a week later, my husband lost his job.
And so it just put an enormous amount of pressure on me to be present for my family. Yeah. It's been a lot. And so I'm really grateful that we have such incredible patrons that kind of kept this space going and have had grace when things didn't go right. You know, I had never told anybody I was planning to do that, so I didn't feel like I let anyone down.
There have been things that have had to be moved around because of that. But I think that, for the most part, we were able to keep the wheels on the bus because of our early planning.
Symbol
Right. Because you had all of the shows already recorded, then I could still go ahead and edit and get them ready for publication. But that was because of your advanced planning.
Amy
Yeah. I mean, if we wouldn't have had those in the pocket, I think we would have had a harder time. We also had one guest that we were planning to bring on, which was Kristen L. Berry She wrote a book called We Don't Talk About Carol. We did have to move some people around. So like Amy DuBois Barnett went out late, but she still went out. But Kristen and I had wires crossed with the publicist. So the publicist of her team would prefer if we highlight her second book. And I was going to kind of screen that for but all of that happened and transpired. And so we had to let Kristen go
Symbol
temporarily.
Amy
Temporarily, like we would love to bring her on, or we will use that book as a book club book. Don't worry, even though she didn't get slotted, it was mostly a like a publicist issue. Right.
Symbol
Right. So how do you coordinate with publicists and authors and all their teams?
Amy
well, you see my email. How do I do it?
Symbol
There is a lot of back and forth. Yeah. So
Amy
We started booking in March and we asked our writers to record as soon as possible. And I think it's mostly like finding every single person who needs to be involved in every single transaction, right? Every person has a different level with their team. So someone who is a seasoned author may have their own publicist they've hired outside of the publishing house.
Then we have the publishing house itself, the publicist there, sometimes the assistant to the publicist who is working at the house who's going to be getting us our copies of the book. And then we have the author themselves who may or may not be involved. That that may surprise people because sometimes all these people are like working as handlers of that person. We did have a couple of what I would consider like more high maintenance type of guests where they have six or seven people involved. And then I may get a calendarly from each of them. So like everyone has me on their calendar and then I'm getting like one thousand emails from each person who may or may not be communicating as a team together.
Symbol
And for the first time you actually had somebody sit in on an interview that was one of the authors.
Amy
That was new for me. Right.
Symbol
Which was different. On mute, I mean
Amy
It was not a problem at all. I just have never had that happen. And, you know, I work for Libby. You guys might not know, but I also am a host for Libby. And so I sometimes will run by Joe, who is my co-host on the Book Lounge by Libby podcast, and just say, like, hey, what do you know about this person or have you interviewed them? And he will also prep me for like, this person has other people involved or this person is hard to interview, or this is what I would say about this. And it kind of gives me a baseline on that guest. And so that has been very helpful for insider knowledge. But yeah, I think people would be surprised how many back and forths happen behind the scenes before we nail an interview.
Symbol
Yes. So when you're having the conversations on camera, have you ever had a conversation go in a different direction than you were expecting?
Amy
Always. I feel like I don't set the template, so we do send them a sheet of questions. I assuming their publicist gives it to them. Assuming that happens and that they open the document, right? We send them a very highly detailed sheet about how the the show is going to be going. They get their recording instructions, they get the writing journey section, then we go through the book itself, like overall themes, not in the spoiler terrain, and then we do a spoiler episode. So
Every guest except one had recorded a spoiler episode too. So we have essentially two shows with each guest, but we get it in that, you know, hour, hour and fifteen minutes of time. So we send all of that. So I think I know what the themes are of that conversation because I've given them basically an olive branch of how I'd like for the show to go. But always new things emerge.
I think one thing with Kia Abdullah. Hers was Next of Kin, which was this backlist selection that I I loved. It was a crime. Yes, a crime fiction story. And I thought it was going to be more about how haunting all of those elements. We got into a really incredible conversation about being child free and her choice to be child free and what she would like to see from people about being child free because it had the representation of a sister with a child.
And then the expectation upon the sister who is in her life who doesn't have a child, right? She should have time to like do all of these things for me. Right, exactly. And so that was really interesting. And one thing that I think we've learned to do is that I actually don't make a title of what that book is going to I as much planning as I do, this really like I have to sit on my hands to not just like title everything and like know exactly where we're going with it, but we title the episode when we get done and that is kind of the surprise, I guess, of it all. Like Thao Thai for example, the fact that her initial pitch for the book wasn't like how she was trying to write to a hook. Right. Ends up being the episode title because that was something I did not know when we sat down.
Symbol
Can you imagine trying to keep Thao in in a box? My gosh, she's so brilliant.
Amy
I know. I love her. And even knowing her, as well as I feel like I do.
I was really surprised that that was what emerged. So allowing writers to like, yes, I'm putting your training wheels on so that we know where we're going, but also I feel like we try to have a warm conversational flow that if something else comes out, I'm excited. It it changes everything.
Symbol
Especially if it's like a surprise or some between the scene elements. Yeah. Did you have a favorite off mic moment?
Amy
Well, it's always the things that happen or the things that get said after, you know, I loved learning like what people's journeys have been like on other podcasts or how the rest of their media tour went. But I think my biggest highlight was I interviewed Charleen Hurtubees for Saoirse and she was on a writer's retreat in Ireland and after she got done with her interview.
She was like, Do you want to see out my window? And she picked up her laptop and took me out her window. I just it's so crazy to be talking to people in other countries. Like Gill Paul too, she was so delightful. She was. She was off to take a swim in the pond in London and I'm like freezing. It's like snowing in winter in the Midwest and she was having this grand time, like going out swimming in the pond. And I don't know, just the I think the international moments and just hearing their accents and voices is so delightful for me. Yeah. So those are some of my favorites. And then one of the other things that emerged, which is, I guess, a spoiler, but I interviewed John Searles for Single Girls, which we will be sharing with you in the fall season. But I was surprised because he he used to work as the books editor for Cosmopolitan Magazine. That's how his story was even inspired was his world there. And when he came on to do his interview, the night before, by the way, he said he was hanging out with Brooke Shields and he had posted a picture. They were having a cocktail together. Lucky Duck. I know. And then the next day he's hanging out with me. He's like, Where are you? He's I've never heard of it. So but he said, I listened to your show and I saw your interview with Amy Chozick.
And I had not heard anything about that book. I am so excited about it. I'm going to reach out to her because I have a Today Show segment and I'm gonna see if I can get it to bring onto the Today show. And I told Amy, like of course I messaged her and I was like, John's team may be reaching out to you and it's because he heard your episode, which is really exciting and incredibly flattering. First of all, if anyone does any homework at all, I get really excited. Like they're like
Who are you? Like, why are you? What is this? And sometimes it will happen after, you know, like I understand it's like, I'm just doing this because my team made me do it. And then after it's like, like she genuinely cared about me. Like she genuinely cared. And I think I I hope that that pulls through every time.
Symbol
It pulls through every time, Amy. Don't worry.
Amy
Well, but John, you know, doing that, I was like, I just can't believe like he did take the time to like listen to an episode to make sure that when he came on.
You know, we're talking about someone who just was hanging out with Brooke Shields. Like he doesn't need to do that. And he ended up taking it on the Today Show. It was on last week. And so Amy sent me a message and said I was the patron saint of debut novelists. So I'm gonna take it.
Symbol
Well, you are. I mean, the whole podcast is centered around debut novelists. And I think they need, especially in this day and age, they need somebody to champion for them. So good for you for being that.
So what have we learned from all of our podcasting this summer? Have you taken away any lessons or anything that we're carrying forward?
Amy
Yeah, I have started doing a character sheet because I think one of the things that you and I both struggle with is we don't use book descriptions. So typically on a podcast, I'm not saying that we're enormously different. Maybe, maybe I'm wrong, but Most of the podcasts use the book description as the describer of how they're going to pitch a book, right? and then the publicist will also send you like a template of like these are the questions you should ask an author. And I don't use any of that. So we don't use anything that that is provided. Like we want everything to feel fresh. But that comes into play because if the book description doesn't have the character names, you're screwed because you do our transcripts so that we can have accessibility. So we have spelling issues.
Yes. We have like Saoirse was a little difficult for the for the spell check. Right. And it was like Donegal and like wait, it was Donhi Donny. It was like a lot of names that were not clear. And so when I'm doing the transcript, those are hard to work through sometimes. And you don't want it to be racist, so now we ask it from everyone, right? So we're like 'cause I was like
I just did an interview with an Indian American family. And it's funny because in this story, one of the siblings was always forgotten. Well, her name is not on the book description, by the way. So I'm like, it's kind of funny because she's like the middle child or whatever, but I just think that's so funny. So we are now asking our authors when they come on to set up the character sheet for us. So we're gonna go through the spellings and the pronunciations of your towns and the names of your characters before we get started.
The reason why every guest says, Hi, my name is this, is because I cannot remember sometimes people's pronunciations of their names. And I have listened to some really cringy podcasts where if you're off on the wrong foot with the author and you catalog a name the wrong way, it just it starts everything and you have to work so much harder. So we always have them say, Hi, my name is this. And then I use that when we do our pitch because
I know clearly that's exactly how they say their name. So that's that's the gold standard.
Symbol
As someone with an interesting name, I thank you for that because you have no idea how many times I've been called Crystal or something very strange like that. So tell us what is happening next? What is a sneak peek for future series or reading guides? What's happening next?
Amy
Yeah, so we still have summer spillover. So you know that if you bought the summer reading guide, which thank you if you did, we had Picks with Promise. So those were books that I did not get to screen, but that had really good positive feedback from other early readers. And I read those books. And so some of those authors are coming on to be part of the summer series or I read their books too late and we didn't slate them and then I have big regrets. So they get to spill over into fall.
And then I am also a quest to find other voices. We have some backlist voices. We have also books that have come out earlier this year that I missed because you know I'm always in pursuit of that summer set. And so we're bringing people on for that. So we have 15 fall guests slated. 13 have already been recorded, by the way. So I did that in between everything with my mom. That was kind of my bright spot.
shiny moment
and little distraction.
Yeah,
it was just so nice to, you know, it's such a lonely season, I think, when your parent is going through something like that. And it's like, I get to talk to some of the most creative, interesting, incredible, talented people in the world that I would never get to. And I can do it at home in my pajamas if I really wanted to. You know, I'm just I'm comfortable and so
This was my therapy. Like I just got to talk about it. I do we did place two very sad books. That was prior to knowing. Like one of them, I was in the midst with my mom and I didn't know that the book was about a mother dying. And I don't think I would have probably picked that in that season. Correct. But because I had committed to it, we ended up having one of the most incredible, beautiful conversations, and I have no regrets. And
The emotions in that feel so raw and authentic because they really were raw and authentic at that moment in time. Right. And it felt healing in a way to share conversation with someone who was also going through that.
Symbol
Well, books are always very healing. So that's their magic.
Amy
Yeah, for sure. So yeah, we're gonna be off. patrons, you will today receive a printable of everything at that's coming your way, why I picked it, who to expect, and then we'll announce it later on Instagram to the public.
Symbol
So our listeners are amazing and our patrons are fabulous, and we are so grateful that they are here. Can you please explain to everyone why listener support is so crucial for independent podcasts like ours, especially when we're working to bring big projects like this to life?
Amy
Yeah, you know, I had a conversation with a guest that's coming this fall. Julie Buntin wrote Famous Men and she talked about something that I have been stewing on since we had the conversation, which is that so many legacy media publications have shuttered their books division or they have narrowed it, the scope of it to a very small amount.
And even if you get featured, let's say in your local paper, if you're not a subscriber, it's often paywalled, right? Exactly. Everything is paywalled right now because everyone is financially hurting. Yep. And was so glad that she brought that up because she was like, these podcasts are more important than they ever have been before because authors do not have places
To share their books where they are seen and where we actually move copies. And I know that we move copies. I can see, you know, as much as people hate Amazon, if I promote something on Kindle, if there's a Kindle Daily deal, for example, we can easily move a hundred copies for an author. No problem.
Symbol
That's life changing.
Amy
And it's life changing because it's really about that metric to the publishing house. And for a while, you know, I know that there are mixed feelings. I fully support you going to your indie bookstore if you can afford it. But I also know that we're in the season that's really difficult and a lot of people read digitally. And if no one buys books off bookshop.org and that has been a a pretty astounding trend, I think we have only maybe sold two dollars. We made like two dollars in affiliate money because people don't order through that. They just probably go directly to their indie, which they should. Well, absolutely.
But when it comes to like talking to authors behind the scenes about what does it matter to you where the source is, what matters the most to you and to their publishing house, the only number that really, really matters is how many books did you sell? Right. Right. So if we sell zero books because we're taking a stand,
We're not actually servicing well to the author. So we kind of mix things up. The book lists have Amazon links because we want to help provide that metric so that people see that we actually translate into sales for the author. And then we also use bookshop.org for you know, just we stand with you indie bookshops. Like we care about you and we're not in it to make money on that end. But I think you can hear probably the effort that's also involved. Like this has been a very fun project. It would be nice to be paid for the work that goes into it.
Symbol
Absolutely. everybody wants to feel valued.
Amy
Yeah. And so and the reality is, you know, my with my husband's situation and my mother, we we need your support. My my family needs your support. Symbol's family needs your support.
Symbol
We need your support. Absolutely.
Amy
Yeah. So it's needed. And every like, when people are like, it's only five dollars, it isn't to me. It isn't.
Symbol
What is basically a Starbucks for you per month can make a difference.
Amy
It's and every dollar that I earn right now is going into my daughter's college tuition. So
Symbol
Yes, I have two in college as well.
Amy
Yeah. So we appreciate you helping the next generation raising empowerment.
Symbol
The better generation.
Amy
All right. So now we're just gonna talk about our guests that we've got to host and our experiences with these guests. And I wanna start out with the Sunflower Boys by Sam Walkman. This was our April book club book.
This is a debut novel. It was literary fiction. And I loved this story so very much. It's an unforgettable coming-of-age journey that was set against the heart-wrenching backdrop of Ukraine in 2022. So we had 12-year-old Artem and his younger brother Yuri who embark on a desperate quest to reunite with their father. And it offered readers a gripping odyssey that was told in 100 powerful chapters.
And I picked this book for our book club because was very intrigued by Sam himself. He's very young.
Symbol
He's very young. He was very funny though.
Amy
Yes, he was born in 2000, which it says on his bio, which I was like, wow, I I just I'm
Symbol
I got married in 2000.
Amy
I know, right? Same. And so this was, you know, not just like a war chronicle book, but I found it to be such an intimate portrayal of human resilience and courage and the enduring spirit of the Ukrainian people. And I knew that I cared about Ukraine as an overall theme, right? I know that I love the people of Ukraine. I want the best for the people of Ukraine. I don't really know anything about the history of Ukraine. And I felt like this book really transformed my empathy into something else. Like it made it more real to me.
And it was so fascinating to talk to Sam because he had been working with kids in Ukraine teaching English at a primary school, and that really helped shape the heart of this story. Definitely. And I felt like of the books that we are talking about today, this was the most commented upon book that we had.
We had an incredible turnout. Sam was unable to come. He was actually in Ireland when we did the book club night. So we always invite our authors to come on if they want. We call it the hype night. And he said he would have a hype night for Amy in Ireland. So I hope they had a good time. I was like, definitely have a pint for me. But yeah, it was really interesting. I think it was a very fascinating conversation.
Symbol
He has such a fresh voice. And you could tell that he was part of the story, even though he didn't write himself in the story. And I loved when he was on the show and he was talking about his next door neighbor who had come from Ukraine and was his best friend. I thought that was so sweet.
Amy
Yeah, and I was so inspired by him and told him, you know, I have this rather robust media training background because I used to work as a spokesperson for a lot of brands and they made me like work with like Oprah's coaches and like all these like weird people. If you work for SC Johnson or these like big, Procter Gamble, they want you to be incredibly media trained. So they put me through the ringer. You know, I would come in for these two days of training in Chicago. And it's this little wheelhouse of knowledge that's very helpful when we're guiding our authors through conversation. But also I just want to see him succeed. And I told him I would help him in any way I could. he has access to my calendar. He can schedule with me and I will coach him so that he can go on other people's shows and and give him connections because the work that he's doing is so important. And it's a way that I feel like I can sort of help the people of Ukraine by helping share the story.
Symbol
Definitely. Definitely. Well, all of the readers really love this. This is one of the favorites. And Colleen said, "Amy, this book was easily six stars. I loved it and stayed up way too late finishing it. I'm so sad I missed the chat, but thank you for sharing such an incredible story. It's definitely a contender for favorite book of the year."
Amy
Yay!
Symbol
Susan said, "I finished this today, and my goodness, Amy, it was fantastic. I'm devastated and also enriched. This is why I love your book club. I probably wouldn't have picked this up on my own, but I can already tell this will be a fave book of the year."
Amy
Yeah, this was definitely one of the favorites I think of the year. We poll readers at the end of the year to ask them what their favorite book of the year is. And I feel like it may be the Sunflower Boys. I don't know. We'll find out. This on Goodreads just for data. This is only for data purposes. This does not speak to the quality of work because we all know Goodreads, but it has a 4.55 rating, and there are still only 2,076 ratings and 396 logged reviews. So we do pick more of the under the radar books to feature. And I think this is still sliding under the radar as far as you know that kind of data. So if you read it and loved it.
I encourage you to also give feedback because that will also be a way that you can help Sam and his story live on.
Symbol
A nice free way.
Amy
So the second guest that we had this summer was Scandalous Women by Gill Paul. This was a backlist pick. This was one of mine that I wanted to seed into our year. It's historical fiction and a juicy, entertaining look behind the scenes of two literary legends, Jackie Collins and Jacqueline Suzanne, and the young editorial assistant who brings them together in the 1960s. It was frothy and fast paced and it uncovers more behind the trailblazers who refuse to play by the rules. And I thought that this was absolutely so much fun to talk about.
Symbol
So much fun.
Amy
And I as much as I want you to read Gill Paul's book, I think you should just listen to the episode, even if you don't read the book, because it's so dishy in nature about these like icons in the literary world that I didn't really know anything at all about.
I mean, just from the very beginning of how they were doing talk show circuits and like the earliest days of a book tour and how all of that came to be and how they nurtured like with bookshop owners to create.
Symbol
I know and it's crazy because their books are so dishy and a little racy, especially for the time. I remember sneaking them back in the eighties. Yeah. but they were like They were trailblazers.
Amy
Yeah, they were such trailblazers. And I read this book. I did the audiobook, which was spectacular. And it just reminded me of like some Madmen themes. There's drama. It was so perfect for a summer book. Just very frothy, but you learn something. I I have a whole new appreciation and understanding of these women. Gill was so fun. She She was such a delight. And one of the things that I loved about her is that
She is endlessly curious and pivots to whatever genre she needs to write, right? She's not going to, she doesn't write to trends or she's basically saying, like, I want to be a long-standing author and I will write whatever it takes, you know, whether that's nonfiction, whether that's historical fiction. She does the work and I think that it really shows on the page. She's just a really phenomenal and interesting, endlessly interesting person, but shy, very sweet. I just love talking to her.
Symbol
You'd never know she'd write such dishy characters.
Well, our readers also love this. Jessica says, "Book Gang is one of my favorite podcasts." Agree, Jessica. "Amy brings such heart to her shows, and it's clear how much time she spends preparing for her interviews. She's thoughtful and infuses so much joy into the episode. She puts so much effort into finding unique stories and authors to highlight. And Amy has become one of my top reading recommendation sources. I dare anyone to listen and not love this podcast."
Amy
You better not.
Symbol
And then Kate says, "I was so excited when I saw this book selection on the list, and I started it this weekend while traveling. The interview with Gill was sublime. Five stars. Can't wait for the spoiler episode."
Amy
Yes, it's so fun to talk about the spoiler episodes and I think that one had some really emotional moments behind the scenes that readers may not realize were really rooted in some of her own tragedies and things that she endured as a as a writer that she was able to weave into and really make impactful because of her lived experience, which I I think always goes to show that a book is successful if it's based upon, elements of your own self.
Symbol
It needs to be authentic.
Amy
Yeah, for sure. So yeah, that was such a great one. This one has 4.20 stars on Goodreads, but it only has 1,549 ratings. It's very underrated. And only 327 written reviews. I encourage you. I can't wait to go through Gill's backlist now that I'm done planning for the season. I would really like to screen some other books and see if we can bring her on for book club year because she is such an interesting and curious person about the world. And I just loved her writing so much. Yes, definitely. So when I had reached out to Gill just for like a little behind the scenes, she had replied back that she had investigated my website and the podcast before agreeing. And she was like, I've been scrolling around your very impressive website and can't believe how many pies you have your finger in. So she was like, This is such a great resource. And I thought that was so sweet because, you know, obviously it's just a very UK way to say like you just put your hand in every pie.
Symbol
Well also if you've never been to Amy's website MomAdvice.com it goes back a ways from when she was a blogger and there are actual pies on there.
Amy
There are pies. If you would also like a pie, you could also do that. Alright, one of my favorite books from last year is one we featured, It's A Splintering by Dure e Aziz Amna
. Now Dure was a book club author before for American Fever, her debut, and she is one of my favorite writers, and I do believe she is flying under the radar still. This was a propulsive, provocative page turner that explores what happens when a poor girl from Pakistan desires better for her family, sacrificing her morals to give her children more, but at what cost? I loved this book so very much. It is a very dizzying examination of class and gender and motherhood.
And I could not wait to bring Dur e back. I finished this book in one day. It is so engrossing. It is thrilling. It is impeccably paced. I think her prose is so crisp. She does not get melodramatic. It's just so straightforward and delivered. It's delicious. I cannot even begin to tell you. And the story even begins with, "Let my story begin with rage."
Symbol
I know one of the best opening lines.
Amy
I know. So we are thrown into Tara's world, who is a narrator that's just daring the reader to judge her even as she demands to be understood. And she is a writer who came onto our show and got to dish on what it's like to do both a US and UK book tour, which was fascinating, right? Yeah. I know. So the big difference, spoiler alert, is booze. So in the US
Symbol
surprisingly, in the UK, the booze, you would have thought.
Amy
Yeah, yeah. So in the US, I think because we're so cheap right now, we can't afford it. Okay. We can't we can't be buying you booze and providing books. But Yeah, it was really interesting to hear about that. Also, that she was on a Ferrante fever bend with her like reading and that other people were picking up Ferrante hints in her story. So if you are a fan of Elena Ferrante, I think that this would be a perfect book for you. I absolutely loved it.
And this is again another book that flies under the radar. It has a 4.18 star, but there are only 561 ratings. And there are 150 written reviews on this book. I would just love for people to pick it up. And I think that a lot of people did get to do that because we had a giveaway with her audiobooks. So Dure which is something that authors, if you are looking to kind of bolster an episode, it's not something I would think to do. But apparently Audible had given her five books she could give away as an author, and she gave all five of her downloads to our show. So a lot of readers got to read it. Yeah. And they and that was wonderful to see.
Symbol
Well, the readers loved it. Ellen in particular says, I finished this book two days ago, but I keep thinking about it. That is one of the hallmarks of a great book. The protagonist Tara is such an interesting and unusual character. she admits up front that the reader probably won't like her and will find parts of her story uncomfortable. This is true, and yet Tara fascinated me with her single mindedness and determination to achieve what she desired. There's a lot to ponder in this novel featuring a morally grey woman.
Amy
Yes. Ellen was one, I believe, of the winners of the audiobook experience. So it's just something that I know we have a lot of authors that listen. If you can offer something like that as a bonus, I do think that that helps because that actually drove over to Goodreads and got other people to read it. Yeah, absolutely.
Well, our next guest was What Kind of Paradise by Janelle Brown. This was our May Book Club selection. It's a literary thriller, and this was a hypnotic novel where a father's decision to raise his daughter off the grid brings consequences. And then her whole teenage world changes with the arrival of a laptop, a modem, and the internet.
So it's an unraveling for the reader of great magnitude. And I picked it because I loved the character work in this book. I thought it was highly immersive. It was brought to life by Helen Laser, who a lot of people love her audiobook narration. And I thought that this was what I qualify as a meat on the bones thriller. Not every thriller has meat on the bones, right? We do like those popcorn thrillers, but they're not great for the show at all. And it was such a joy.
I have been reading Janelle since her very first book, like way back in the day. So I think at the point that we interviewed her, she had six novels under her belt, and it was really a big hit. So as far as book club chatter goes, that was probably one of our best attended. We have a lot of readers that absolutely love thrillers and I don't place them very often. And we won't see them all year. And then they will come for the the thriller episodes.
Symbol
If it's in their wheelhouse.
Amy
I know, I know. But the problem is creating a podcast. Right? Right, without spoilers. So last year's dilemma, which, you know, we could have a whole podcast about that, was Finding Grace by Loretta Rothschild. Okay, so that book, it's not a thriller, but because the Twist. Twist comes early, we did not know how to do the conversation.
Symbol
I remember her.
Amy
Yeah. So it was just a very difficult conversation because the themes that I thought had emerged from that book, she didn't want to talk about, or the themes that were the most prevalent, we couldn't talk about because of this whole situation. The same applied to Janelle Brown this year. Right. So the twist comes early, if you want to call it a twist. Everything changes at the beginning of the book, which then sets the stage for the rest of the book.
So how do we talk about the book? Without spoiling it. And so that became more about building the atmosphere, building the nineties world in which Janelle had worked in tech. I think that's where we had to like really, you know, but that episode is quite short because there is no way to talk about it.
Symbol
It is the shortest episode, the shortest recording. But also no spoilers. So the spoiler section also makes it longer.
Amy
Right. So the spoiler episode ends up being the longer section, but it isn't the forward-facing thing that other people can get into. And so that was the biggest challenge with this episode. But people loved this book.
Symbol
They did. and unfortunately I can't give you a lot of the feedback because this comments went into the spoilers, but I will tell you Kalina says, “so appreciative of all you do, an immersive reading experience with this month's book club playlist is exactly what I seek to achieve as I feel it deepens the connection to the story and music is such an amazing way to do this. Grateful for this space and looking forward to diving into this book. Much aloha to you and yours.”
Amy
Yes, from Hawaii. So it's interesting because when I have an episode that I know is particularly short, I will overcompensate and build a playlist.
Symbol
Yes, but you're really good at building playlists. I feel like you could DJ even on the side.
Amy
Yeah, I mean, so and I did. I was a college DJ at Purdue. I I would do that at my college campus dorm, but the thing about that is that you know I wanted to create more of an immersion because I know that the experience is gonna be shorter, so how do I enhance that for the reader? And so we did really try to make that more immersive and that all transpired before everything fell out from under me as a human.
All right, so now we get to talk about Enormous Wings by Lori Frankel. This was obviously one of the best premises, I think, of any of the books that we were bringing. It is a high concept premise. Pregnant at 77 after finding romance at her assisted living community certainly sends a grandmother's whole family into a spiral. So in this book, you are prepared to be thrown into the action of another boisterous, big-hearted Jewish family drama with a juicy book club topic sure to get readers talking. So, Lori Frankel, I have been reading well since her debut. I've been reading her since before anybody knew who Lori Frankel was, frankly. And I remember reading her debut, but also This Is How it Always Is was such an important, a transportive story, a beautiful story that we brought as a backlist pick the year prior to and I didn't reach out to Lori because I had already hosted Lori a long time ago on my on my blog. So I had this thing called Sundays with writers and we would do written interviews with authors. And that was like the first time I mean I had just the craziest I mean I interviewed Andy Weir and Anthony Doer. And you know, I had all these like really big name people and I would get Taylor Jenkins Reid I mean, it was crazy. I was interviewing all these people.
Symbol
Again, cold calling,
Amy
Just cold calling. I would just like send them an email. You know, I'd hunt them down. And so anyways, all that is to say is I already had a written interview for with Lori for that. And so I didn't reach out to her. But I was shocked when Lavender Publications, I believe, is the publicist who's working for her reached out and said, can we get Lori on your show for this high concept premise book? And I was like, absolutely, I have been dying to meet her.
And I was so like of all the interviews I think that I did this summer, I had two I was incredibly nervous about and this was one of them. Mainly because every time I've met someone I widely respect and love, they are such a bummer. When I used to work for Walmart, like there would be celebrities that it would just crush your heart.
You would, they would be awful, just the worst people in the world. And you're like, wow, that is not how I expected things to go. So it was such a delight when Lori was exactly who I dreamed her to be. It was just like I was so overwhelmed by just how kind she was.
Symbol
She was amazing. She was so generous with her time and her story. And we're not the only ones who think so because we have Kate says, “I finished the book yesterday and then listened to both episodes. I agree with Laurie wholeheartedly. You asked such good questions to the author, guests to prompt an excellent discussion about the book, the process, the peak behind the scenes of publishing. Thank you.”
Amy
I think with this book, my biggest concern was people are going to just think it's an abortion book. And I think that was one element with this episode that I was nervous about. How do we how help people understand that this is not just a book about reproductive rights. This is a book about autonomy in all of its forms, right? About aging parents, like when your parents should not be driving anymore, who has the agency and how does that take away agency from people? And how do we have hard conversations and how do we as siblings work together to make this the best later part of our parents' life. Right.
And so what I did with this one and this pitch in particular, because I knew exactly where people are coming from and you know, the whole thing is even Lori said, we can't change no one's changing anybody's mind. If you are pro-life, you will always be pro-life. I'm just saying, could we talk about some other decisions in which people don't have agency, right? Right. Let's talk about other things.
And so I knew that the pitch had to be right when we did it in order to not turn the reader off to say, like, I'm not listening to this or I'm discontinuing my Patreon, right? Which does happen sometimes if there are polarizing issues that people feel very strongly about, they will be like, I don't want to support this creator anymore. Which is unfortunate because I wish you would listen before making a decision. But I knew that the pitch would have to be good. So I went on Goodreads and I found this person who did not agree at all with Lori at all, like with anything about this book. And then said, I love to read her because she teaches me a lot. And I'm always like thinking about it, even though I'm not changing my mind. Right. I don't regret reading this. And so I used that for her pitch.
Authors sometimes do not listen to the show. And sometimes the publicist doesn't listen to the show. They're not right. I don't expect them to. The transaction is complete upon me delivering the like here's the you were featured. We send them a letter. We let them know everything on our transaction end is done.
Symbol
And we do record early. So this episode was recorded a couple of months before it actually aired.
Amy
So once it aired, we were like, Okay, it's aired and we like send it to them. And then if they reply, it's always like, Thanks for having me, something like that. But with this one, you know, the publicist had said thank you so much for having Lori on. And I loved those reader reviews you read out in your intro. To know that people are coming to this book who don't always agree politically brings hope to my heart. I also appreciate the promotional pieces, which are the book lists that we do that give us a little extra lift to the novel ahead of its publication week.
So I felt like that was exactly the approach we needed to do, but I had to like this was like a map in my head in the shower kind of thing because it wasn't just me pitching a book but like if someone has a strong opinion on something how do I pitch this book right where they might consider it to at least have the conversation. Right. Yeah.
Symbol
Absolutely. Well Britney says “I'm a longtime Laurie Frankel fan, and once again her characters and premise pulled me right in. With the mic drop revelation that Pepper is 77 and pregnant, I knew this would be a book I'd be unpacking out loud. I found myself calling my mom daily to share the who, what, when, and why as the story unfolded. I absolutely zipped through this one, driven by questions that do get answered and answered thoughtfully, Enormous Wings is deeply humane and surprisingly tender. It asks you to pause, reflect on what's ahead, and look back on the life you've already lived, a truly unique and highly memorable read.”
Amy
So this one is sitting at 3.86 stars. I do think it's because it's a 100% polarizing topic, right? Right. but there are 9,699 ratings and 2,156 reviews. So it is like doing well as far as like it is out in the world. Like I feel like maybe 10,000 is great for the amount and we're getting right on that cusp of it. So I hope that more people will pick this book up. I'm a huge fan of her work. And if you don't gravitate towards this theme, This Is How It Always Is is a book that really changed my life.
Symbol
So I love that book. Yeah. I love This Is How It Always Is.
Amy
Well, now we get to talk about The Foursome by Christina Baker Klein. This is my favorite historical fiction book of the whole summer. It's an entrancing story of conjoined twins who found fame and fortune, and then an unlikely love story with sisters in the late 1800s, inspired by the author's own family history and the intriguing question: why would two conventional young women in rural North Carolina choose this marriage? I picked this book because obviously I'm a huge fan. This author is best known probably by most readers for The Orphan Train, which kind of was like a big hit when historical fiction first landed and also spurred a whole bunch of other orphan train stories.
Symbol
Right. It was a trend.
Amy
So she brings this story to life with such a compelling force. She uses just one sister's viewpoint, which was really, really smart. But it also tackles big themes like the enslavement of black people, about religion, about good southern values and more. I was like looking at premises for books this summer, this one was so intriguing to me that I was like, everybody's gonna be wanting to read this.
And what has shocked me is people were like, I had no intention of reading this because I didn't want to read about conjoined twins. I'm like, what? I think this is just again, I love books where, you know, people are facing unique medical challenges or that are going to alter my brain a little bit. But this has been a harder sell to people that I know read like me. And that has been really surprising to me.
And I will say that Joe had interviewed Christina Baker Klein before I did. And I was able to get a little scoop because I was very nervous about this interview. Because I wanted to really show up to her work with the grace and the curiosity that it deserved. Right. And yeah, this whole episode ended up being so much more compelling because I think she understood that I understood the work. Yeah. Right.
Symbol
Well I think a lot of people might try to pick it up like a circus act kind of thing. And this was so much more.
Amy
Yes. It was just a family drama. Yes. can't even imagine, you know, she did say there were versions floating around in the world where they had tried all the different POVs and I think it would not have been the same story. And she picked this sister who was in real life a bit more progressive and more interesting.
And and understood the complexities of what they were doing on their own properties with enslaving people, and also that the conjoined twins were kind of their own entrapment through circus acts. So just fascinating all around. And you can tell that so much love and care went into it. I was prepping for that, not only preparing for Christina, but to actually understand the history of the twins themselves before I met with her. So I think my icebreaker was something like, Did you have you ever gone to the family reunion? It's because I had watched all these clips in my like YouTube lunch and learns where I was like teaching myself about the Bunker twins. I didn't know anything about them. And then I would bring it up like to my dad and stuff. He's like, Yeah, everybody knows about them. But I'm like, I guess I didn't. No. So I was learning so much.
Symbol
Different generation, though.
Amy
Totally. And so, like, thanks to TikTok and YouTube, I had a full lesson on that aspect, especially the unique family ties that she brought to the show. Yes, yes. It was lovely. Well, Brittany says this one started a bit slower for me, not in a bad way, but in a slow down, settle in and let the story unfold kind of way. Once I reached the halfway point though, I couldn't put it down. I wanted every detail about this family, their marriages, their struggles, and the complicated world they navigated.
Symbol
Sidra says “thanks to Mom Advice for putting this on my radar by including it in her summer reading guide. And with the great author interview, Baker Kline does an excellent job of diving into why someone might choose this type of marriage and what the day-to-day life might be like.”
Amy
Yeah, it was such a compelling book. She was a compelling guest. I had a great time. I was like sweating bullets. Like sometimes I get done recording, and like my shirt was like drenched. Like my husband touched my back after that one he was like, Holy heck, like I can't believe like you're that wet. Like you need to go change or take a shower or something. It's just like there's so much adrenaline pumping because, you only get so much time with someone and you want to make sure that you make the most of it.
And to talk about the breadth of her entire career in a way that also was compelling and one trend that emerged not just from her but I think also from Rachel Beanland was this whole idea that women don't really like being called historical fiction writers. It was shocking to me. So and allowing myself to like talk with several of them and them all saying the same thing that
Symbol
It's true though I never thought about it. Men are not called
Amy
Men are never called historical fiction writers, right? They're called literary fiction writers. Yeah. So that was just fascinating. And her pushback on that genre kind of started that whole trend that we were seeing this summer of people not wanting to be pigeonholed into that kind of genre.
Symbol
So well, you don't want people to expect something from you because it then it's hard to switch things up.
Amy
Right. Which Rachel Beanland had said, I'm moving to contemporary fiction, I don't want to do that anymore. And now I'm considered this historical fiction, even though it's just me writing a story that's set in time. Right. So yeah, really interesting.
This book is sitting at 4.16 stars and 7,569 ratings. So it is off and 1,179 reviews. Seriously, I highly recommend this. It's one of my favorite books of this summer.
Now we get to talk about Sarah Damoff for The Burning Side. This was a family drama that explores two marriages forced together under one roof after a devastating house fire. Pondering the choice to stay, the sacrifice that sometimes is required in enduring relationships, and the compromises that we make in everyday choices in this confident story full of hope.
Now, Sarah was a returning guest. We snagged her for The Bright Years, and I'm so glad that she came back. She is also someone that I want to speak to as just a genuinely good person.. She joined the Patreon and has supported the show ever since she came on as a guest. And we have a few, few guests that have done that. Allison Larkin comes to mind as well.
She may never get another. She knows that this is a debut show, right? We don't typically bring a lot of people back. It's always like just the most beloved kind of pulled back in, but she wants to give that experience to another young writer or someone just starting out in their career. And I really appreciate that about her.
And I think that the reason why this episode is so compelling is that I got to be one of the first conversations to talk about her work. And so there's things about her original draft. Like it being an epistolary novel for The Bright Years, and people don't typically know that information, but because we go through the whole craft of the writing journey, it was just so fun to have her back and be like, What did you think about The Correspondent? Because they told her it wouldn't be successful, right? And so yeah, it was just really wonderful to celebrate.
And one thing that we've started doing with the guests, which I think is just so impactful and way, way more fun to talk about. So usually when authors do a book tour, they're asked to read usually like the first few pages of your story, or you can pick a passage at the beginning of your book. Obviously, you're not going to be reading anything from the end because you want people to buy the book. Right. But because we do the spoiler section, we've started asking authors to read the final pages of their book and why that's the perfect way to end it.
And if you've read this book in particular, it has a very moving I don't know, almost like a movie of time ending in which you are seeing things fast forwarding, how things go through, and it's just so sweet. And I always think about you Symbol because you don't necessarily read these books and you have to listen to all the spoilers.
Symbol
Fun fact about me though is I love spoilers.
Amy
Which is not typical. So this really works in my favor because you like to know what's gonna how it's gonna work out.
Symbol
I do. I always I start the book, I'll go three chapters and then I'll read the last chapter and then I'll go back and finish the whole book. So these spoiler episodes are actually my favorite part because then I know what I'm getting into from the start.
Amy
Yeah, and Sarah gave us 40 minutes of her time after
Symbol
This was the longest episode at an hour and 37 minutes.
Amy
Yeah, because she really wanted to talk through some of the decisions that were made. Like at the start of the story, this is not a spoiler. The infidelity comes into play, and so we talk about how she built that section for the reader and what was important to her in that section. There are lots of like emotional decisions that have impact that we couldn't talk about and she talks about those types of things behind the paywall. And so it was just a joy and she is so generous to stay that long and talk about it.
Well, and she was also prepping for Land by Maggie O'Farrell. She was going to be on book tour with her. And it was so she was like, I'm using this as my the show as my template. You know, like how to be prepared for a guest because now she's been on the circuit for a while. I I don't think, I'm not saying like we're incredible but…
Symbol
I do think that we are pretty incredible.
Amy
We we do prep our guests and it's helping it helped her in leading her book. So we talked about some ways she could note take and stuff like that. Which so I'm like, am I two degrees away from Maggie O'Farrell? So yeah, that was a really fun one. and I'm really glad that we got to highlight it.
Returns and Exchanges was our next guest by Kayla Ray Whitaker. This is a litfic pick. I love this book so very much. I am a huge, huge fan of Kayla. I cannot believe she was kind of like this white whale. I was like trying to like capture, this person to be on our show. And this is a family saga that takes us behind the scenes into the launch of a 1980s department store chain where messy family dynamics play out in surprising and titillating ways for the couple who own this shop. The chaos pulls the reader in every direction as their children navigate life with a store taking its center stage.
I have been waiting for Kayla since 2016 to come out with another book. The Animators was one of my favorite books the year it came out. I just love her as a storyteller. She's an English school teacher, which made her even more compelling because she knew all the classics inside and out and what themes she's borrowing from and where it comes from. But also her whole immersion of building a department store. Even if you don't read this book, even though I wish you would. I think that her process and craft was so fascinating to hear, like watching blocks of commercials from the eighties to really formulate these media moments for the family and the the displays that went into the store.
Symbol
I think it worked really well. When I was reading this book, I went back in my mind to a
a store called Barker's, which was popular in New Orleans. And I felt like I was there.
Amy
Yeah, yeah. I thought she did such a phenomenal job. It was so fascinating to talk through just building nineteen eighties Kentucky. This is also not a love story between like a husband and wife, but a love story between a woman who finds a sapphic love affair with another woman in the department store, which is something that she tells the listeners at the top, because there's just no way to talk about this book. Because really towards the top of the story is when that love affair takes center stage, but this woman has to figure out how she is going to be with the love of her life when it is compromising their family as a whole. This is definitely character driven.
I do think litfic readers will really appreciate how she builds character work in this book.
Symbol
I agree. it was very good. It was very big, but it was worth every page.
Also, Britney says “this will absolutely be on my favorite books of the year list. And it's all thanks to Mom Advice for putting this gem on my radar. If the inner workings of a family discount store, the rise and fall of a family business, and the beautifully messy reality of life sound appealing, please put this one on your list.”
Amy
Yes, perfect. And the Goodreads rating is 3.93 stars, but there are only 583 ratings and 164 reviews. I do believe it was a bestseller, even though it doesn't have a ton of Goodreads feedback. But if you love this book, I think this is one where your Goodreads feedback is imperative to keep Kayla telling us stories. Yes. It's a beautiful book. I will be on my favorite books of the year list, and I just couldn't believe that I finally got to meet her after, you know, waiting for nine years for her to write another book.
And what's funny is that Julie Buntin, who wrote Famous Men, and Kayla Ray Whitaker, were in a program, I believe, together, a writing program. And they both have waited nine years. And they both came out with a book this like summer. And it's just crazy. So crazy. And so it was so fascinating. And then after talking to Kayla and also to Julie, who you'll get to meet later this fall, they care so very deeply about every word on that page. Like from a sentence perspective.
It it's like I had a brand new respect because the craft is so genuine and it's why we wait nine years for a book instead of these mass produced like a book every six months, a book every year kind of experiences. It's worth the wait because these people care so deeply about all the versions too that lived in the world of these books. So really fascinating.
Our next guest was The Sign for Home by Blair Fell. This was a backlist pick. It was a debut. And this book explored the DeafBlind experience through a funny, heartfelt coming-of-age story as a young man discovers that finding your voice and agency can come vividly to life when the right interpreter is involved. A sublime debut crafted through an author's lived experience as an ASL interpreter.
Now I hunted down Blair Fell to be on the show because I found his book at my local library. I was looking for a backlist pick where we could bring on some other diverse voices. The DeafBlind experience is something I knew absolutely nothing about, like zero when I went into this book and I walked away wholly changed by the experience. Blair was such a dynamic person, such a dynamic.
Symbol
My gosh, just so funny.
Amy
I know. And he would love to come back anytime. Blair was a delight and he has such a robust like background of playwriting. Play being a playwright, being like in TV, and just kind and generous and interesting and funny. So many stories. Yeah. And so with him, I had no problem like promoting this book. I think the biggest thing from this experience that has been surprising is that Paria Hassari, who was a guest on our show for Harvesting Rosewater, she wrote a book about her time in Iran as a kid. And then, you know, it's like a midlife book. Do you remember this book?
Symbol
I do.
Amy
I think she's phenomenal and she is such a great contributor to the BookTok community. She posts a review. I feel like every day she shares her thoughts behind a book. But she loved this book. And she went on BookTok and just said that she found it from the show, that she was so glad that she found it and that this was like all the stars. And all of a sudden, all these women that were in our age demographic that follow Paria were like, This is my favorite book of the year. And then they were like posting about and I was like, this is how it works, right? It's a great word of mouth book. Everyone who reads it tells someone else about it. I told someone else about it. I mean, I did a whole entire blog post.
Sometimes I'll do these backlist features on Patreon where I deep dive into a book and what makes it special. Blair did his own audiobook. It was fascinating to hear about that experience. I don't think anybody else could have narrated that in the way that he did and brought the heart and the humor and the joy that was required to build this story.
This is sitting at a Goodreads rating of 4.24 stars, 8,280 ratings with 1,727 written reviews. So still under the radar, guys, and it's been out for a while. Blair is coming out with his third book, this fall about Shakespeare and his gay love affair.
Symbol
Yes, that sounded amazing. And also I want to read Disco Witches.
Amy
Yeah, I think it's called The Two Wills? So anyways, definitely look into that and it was such a joy to have him on as a guest.
Next we'll talk about Saoirse by Charleen Hurtubise which is also a debut. It was literary fiction. Readers get to travel to Ireland in a haunting, mysterious meditation on a young girl's disappearance that reverberates through a family that is already marked by loss. It unfolds in shimmering fragments through her artwork, which was the most unique aspect of the story.
The search for truth becomes as much about what is remembered as what has been quietly buried. This is a slow burning story. It takes us into the 1990s Ireland and it has this incredible art component, but also a lot of intriguing details for readers about Irish values. It's deeply intertwined with the Catholic Church that I thought gave us a real sense of time and place and what it was like for women back then.
I loved this book and I thought that it was such a beautiful, quiet story. This one on audiobook is spectacular. It had a little bit of musical interludes that helped you transition between the art pieces. It was just different than anything that I've gotten to experience before. And I loved hearing how she pieced together like the jigsaw experience. And Charleen did this on her writer's retreat. She joined me, like I said, and you know that is amazing. And I just really loved this book a lot.
Symbol
Well, we had a comment on the show that said “This podcast is an absolute standout. The interviews are consistently thoughtful and deeply informed and never service level. Amy asks questions that show she is generally curious and creates space for authors to open up about their work. Come for the interviews, but stay for the book selection. This podcast excels at uncovering hidden gems, ones I likely would not have found on my own. And I love how Amy expands my reading life in unexpected ways. A must listen for anyone who loves books.”
Amy
Very kind. Thank you to whoever left that comment. It is sitting at a 3.95 star rating and 5,905 ratings. So definitely still an under the radar gem. There's only 1,174 reviews. If you love this book, please give it a shout out on Goodreads.
Our next book was Next of Kin by Kia Abdullah. This was backlist, a crime fiction thriller. And this is unpacking the moral calculus of love in a taut, thought provoking courtroom drama. When a split second decision leads to irreversible consequences in a sister's life, the question isn't just what happened, it's who gets to be forgiven in a riveting sister story. And I picked this because Kia is new to me, but there are a lot of crime fiction readers that really love her work. And I was thinking about there is an empty hole for a lot of people for Jody Picoult, you know, courtroom drama stories, you know. And I thought that this touched on those same kinds of beats.
But I also was really curious about Kia as a person. She was a fascinating individual. She was. She does so much. She's incredibly driven.
Symbol
With her lists?
Amy
Right. The Asian Book List, which spotlights British-Asian voices. So she runs basically, I think it's a substack where you can get other British-Asian voices into your book stack. And she does that as a side hustle. But she also does like a whole bunch of other stuff, like travel, all of these other things.
This is definitely a story to which if you're a young mom, maybe not. Like I wouldn't I wouldn't read this because it has a very tough premise about a child death. But if you are not a young mom, this has so many good twists. And of all the spoiler episodes, this is one I really delighted in. And getting to talk through especially I think with spoiler chats, the ambiguous endings, like where you're like dot dot dot and the reader has to like think about it.
I always love to ask about that. Like, what do you see them doing now? Like what does it look like? Why did you end it that way? That's always like a thrill. And this one ends a little bit ambiguous. Like, is there a sequel? Like what will we what will happen with these sisters? So I definitely loved this episode a lot. And I am looking at the Goodreads reviews. It's 3.99, which is high for a thriller. 55,717 ratings and 4,837 reviews. Not as under the radar as most of our guests. So this is one I believe that is often on the Kindle Unlimited catalog. So pick this one up.
The next guest we had was Skin Contact by Elisa Faison This was a debut literary fiction book. It's a mesmerizing debut that explores a couple who enter into an open marriage and reveals how this bold decision reshapes their world and everyone else's around them. It has a traditional romance inside of it, but it has a strong literary fiction core that shifts like a kaleidoscope. I started screening this and this is one author that I was like talking to in real time. I'm like, I'm picking up your book. And I don't usually do that because I'm like, what if I hate it? You know? But I did start it and I loved it. And then I went and updated her and asked her if we could get her on the show. I think this book was so surprising in the fact that the story structure was different than anything else.
So I'm thinking it's a salacious little story about an open marriage and we're just gonna have a whole bunch of like bedroom shenanigans things, you know, which is great for summer like for a summer reading guide.
Symbol
Like nothing against that.
Amy
No, I love Steamy books, if they're done right. And this one was different than that though. It was interconnected short stories, basically, where everyone has an opinion on the open marriage.
Symbol
As everyone does.
Amy
As they do in real life, apparently, because Elisa is in an open marriage. So and these are like one of those kinds of conversations where not only do I learn about craft and how she created that, but also like the lived experience and what she wanted to portray in the story, which is not a lived experience that I know anything about.
I did think that of our premises, this is probably one of the most risque of the books that we were presenting. But I think what has surprised people is like once they get into it, it's like, this book is so different than what I expected.
So because I knew that the premise was going to be a harder sell with a lot of people, this was my book that I took on tour. So I work at Libby. And so I took it to Libby and they had an audiobook episode, and I brought it because Alisa's team let me know that they were going to have a full cast narration, which is huge because if it's interconnected stories, how interesting to hear everyone's little gossip. If you're a gossip girl like me, then you'll really love this because like everybody loves to gossip.
I also brought it to Now That We Think About It with author Allison Larkin, who was our guest last summer and a book club author for The People We Keep and Home of the American Circus, and her co-host Alice Carbentedch. Hopefully I'm saying her last name correctly. And so I took this on tour and then they picked this book as like a video clip. So then it started to generate about this book, and Elisa was endlessly grateful. Because this book did require more hand selling, I think, than the typical book.
Symbol
Yes, and I think that probably explains why her Goodreads feedback is she's got
Amy
Okay. So but her Goodreads feedback, there are two reasons why the Goodreads feedback is not as high as some of the other books. One is that people don't like open marriage. Right. They don't like open marriage. And they are unwilling. And once they find out that
Symbol
The same like Enormous Wings.
Amy
Read the book description. Why are you surprised?
The other thing that they didn't like is that people wanted that salacious, steamy experience that I thought I was getting into. And they didn't find it to be a happy surprise for the interconnected short story experience. So they wanted to just sit with this couple. And so that informs the feedback, right? I wanted this and I didn't get this. And that that actually would be fair. Like maybe you didn't understand that that's what you were getting into and you were desiring something that was more steamy and more developed in that aspect of it. But I encourage anyone who likes short story format, you will like this book. This book is interesting and we have heard from other readers that did like it.
Symbol
Absolutely. A lot of people really loved the audiobook. “Finished Skin Contact this morning and listen to both episodes to digest the story. I'm going to think a long time about Ben and Francis and how I would tell someone else about this book. Yes, it's about an open marriage, but so much more layered than that. I love how the stories spiral out to other people around them and into Frances' own history with her mother and grandmother. Her writing was sharp and insightful into the lives of these characters, and the audio was great with multiple narrators. I almost quit after the first chapter, but so glad I pushed through and trusted the Book Gang rec"
Amy
Yeah. So the first chapter is the steam. So for people like that's like the most steamy is the opener. And I know that there are people that don't like open door. You could just kind of like skim through that section and then get on to the next part of the book. So that's where the reader was like, I don't know about this kind of experience. I respect that. And yeah, it's only got 524 ratings.
This was a great one to talk about with the publicity team. So this this one is with Cardinal and there are a couple of presses that I work with. Counterpoint is one and Cardinal where I'm seeing truly like people who are passionate about the work that they do and they want the author to be really, really happy and they genuinely seem to care about their writers. Like if I was going to pitch my book somewhere, like my book idea somewhere, those would be two like presses that I would look at. And the publicist at Cardinal said, I am so happy that you're interviewing Elisa. Your questions are so perceptive and meaty. I cannot wait to hear this conversation. And I think it's because Elisa felt seen by it. it's not it it's about her life an essentially a little bit lot about fiction and people probably in her real life were looking for like what is this you know, you know
Symbol
Explain to us why you're doing this.
Amy
Right. And so it was just nice to talk through that. And while I don't choose to do an open marriage, I learned a lot about that experience for someone else. So
Symbol
Agreed. And what people do inside their marriage is up to them.
Amy
Yeah. Good luck. Right. Yeah.
So the next book that we had was Amy Du Bois Barnett for If I Ruled the World, which was a debut novel. It was a grown-up coming-of-age story that brought the 90s to life when a black woman navigates the cutthroat world of print media. It was inspired by Amy Du Bois Barnett's trailblazing role as the first African-American woman to helm a major mainstream magazine.
A vibrant workplace drama for fans of The Devil Wears Prada. And I picked this mainly because we are riding on the high of the Devil Wears Prada like lifestyle right now. And I knew that this book was going to be adapted for a series. And one of our top book list requests, which I still need to do, is to have a book adaptation list. And I thought it would be a perfect tie-in to that. But I also was incredibly incredibly curious about who Amy was.
She is the former editor in chief of Ebony Magazine and of Honey and Teen People magazine. And she wrote this in her 50s. And she's trying fiction writing for the very first time. She also is helping adapt it, which was fascinating to hear about. that she was also going to be involved in that. And I think it had such a great conversation around Me Too, especially with the P. Diddy documentary coming out, all of these things, the courtroom dramas that have been coming to life around the 90s rap scene. That is something she was adjacent to. And it was really fun to talk about her life.
I told Amy, and I think this is something that I would give feedback to any author, is that when we are trying to slate guests we look for video clips of them talking to the camera, to the work that they're doing. And Amy posts tons of IG videos about her work and how she was inspired and shows you little things about the magazine. So when I got into her book, I knew exactly what her voice sounds like, how she talks about her work, and she's incredibly confident. And I just really was mesmerized because I can tell that she's very media trained. I felt like I was like learning from someone else who has a strong grasp on talking about their work with great confidence.
Symbol
Yeah, I love this episode, but I also love this book. one of my favorite shows and I still watch in reruns is Living Single and Khadijah with her magazine Flavor And I this is to me, this is like this is her journey. I visualized Queen Latifah as this main character going through life and I loved it so much.
Amy
And she had such like dishy celebrity things I was surprised she talked about. I know. And I like, Is this inspired by anyone? She's like, Well, it's been enough time. So Eve, what are you talking about, Eve? And I was like, my god You know, or like, What's your favorite cover moment? beating Beyonce. I was like, Okay.
Symbol
That's a really, really cool moment.
Amy
So I thought that she was very forthcoming about just enough dish. Not that would like scandalize anybody at this point in time, but like, yeah, these are based upon real moments. And i for anyone who loved, you know, that I do think that this character is quite messy. I do think that you need to be okay with the long journey you're gonna be on with her as she figures out her mess.
Just just know that I thought I found it delightful. I thought it was like very transportive and light and perfect for a summer read.
Symbol
Agreed. I can't wait for this show.
Amy
Yeah. So this is sitting at a 3.92 star rating. There are only 3,575 ratings and 732 written reviews. But I think readers should pick this one up.
Now we have Daughters of Shandong by Eve J. Chung. This was our July book club book. It's historical fiction, sweeping, heart-wrenching story with a breakneck thriller pace that follows a mother and her daughters as they fight for survival during China's 1948 communist revolution. It's precise, it has very luminous prose, and it balances the stark brutalities with a tender sister story at its heart.
Chung was truly like a fascinating guest. She's a Taiwanese American human rights lawyer whose primary focus is on gender equality and women's rights. And this was such a journey experience. It was based upon her family story, and there was so much research that had to be done in order to translate this for American readers.
And I think what we discovered even behind the paywall where we had a book club chat with Eve is that, I couldn't find a lot of information for our book club guide because it didn't wasn't yet translated into American, Like it was not translated into English. And so that aspect really made it difficult to create anything around this book. Like this is a singular experience.
I've never read anything like it. I could not support it. So like I didn't know how to like normally I'm creating these top secret files for the $7 subscribers where we give them all these adjacent experiences. I have no adjacent experience to give to you. So I gave them like the best movies I've watched of the year. Like it was like so off the wall. Like then people are like, okay. But then people were looking after, like, maybe she didn't give us anything because she wanted to share this other file. We're like, there's nothing to give you. This is a singular experience.
And Eve was so generous. She even joined us for book club chat while she's on a family vacation and like her camera was glitching and she still showed up because she's so grateful that we would connect with her work and she has a second book out. I hope people will pick it up. This is such a great book.
Symbol
It is fabulous. Even Thao Thai, one of our favorites, says, “Ooh, I love this one. You have the best picks."
Amy
Yes, this one is sitting at a 4.46 star rating. There are 21,826 ratings and 2,638 reviews. So this one is doing quite well in the world. And I hope her second book is off to a great start.
The next book is one of our favorite people, Molly Fader. Molly Fader Lady X, which was a dual timeline story that offers a revolutionary new world you can fall into without trying.
Set in the nineteen seventies about badass female vigilantes. And what could be a book of pure escapism becomes a conversation about rage, about legacy, and how women protect one another when the world just won't. Now we had pulled our readers the year that Molly came for the Sunshine Girls, who was your favorite guest of the summer, and every single person said Molly Fader was their favorite guest.
Symbol
She has so much energy.
Amy
She has so much energy. And she's so charismatic and very funny. Definitely. And it even has already come up again when we just sent out the poll to everyone. And at book club, someone brought up Heather. She was like, “Hey, can I just talk to you about Molly Fader? She's so funny. You guys have such a good rapport. Like it was so fun.” And I have talked to Molly because Molly has a podcast called Day Drinking with Authors. I have talked to her, like, we would love to have you on like quarterly. I think she would be really fun because she reads primarily backlist books, you know, and she reads for her own. Yeah, she's just so fun.
And, someone said you seem so relaxed. And I was like, part of it is Molly knows how to use a microphone, right? She's been on podcasts. She has done her own podcast. She also knows the internal work of like messing up. So she's like, I'm not gonna mess up on you. You know, so it's like, my gosh. It's such a it's so easy when someone is like a podcaster to come on to talk about podcasting.
Symbol
It does make my editing life easier.
Amy
I know. We were easy. So this book is doing well. It is still kind of new. It has a four point two five star rating, nine hundred and twenty nine ratings. So you guys get on this 291reviews. I can speak for Molly and say she genuinely loves when readers leave feedback and would genuinely love to continue doing her work and I would love to continue supporting her.
Symbol
I loved that she wanted to write the book she wanted to write and had to switch, like had to pivot and gave us such fabulousness at the end.
Amy
Yeah, it was so much fun. And I think this book is definitely one that is, you could give to your mom, you could give it to your grandma. I mean, anybody would get something out of this. It's very, very fun and also speaks to the rage that women feel right now. So much rage. In such a transportive way and I'm excited to see what she does in the 1980s, which is her next leap into the decades. So I can't wait.
Our next book was With Friends Like You by Amy Chozick This is a debut thriller and it is a very chaotic disorientation of new motherhood that pulsates on every page of this provocative, twisty story as a woman reunites with an old friend who brings welcome distractions from her real life.
But the joy of that reunion fades as the truth about why she has disappeared from before comes to light. And I have been such a champion for this book. I like talk about this book all the time. And I really, really wanted people to get Amy's book because I think this book is the thriller of the summer.
She does have Gone Girl’s movie team working on it. She's adapting it right now for screenplay. And it's the same team that was involved. And I think that this one is such a surprising and refreshing dark thriller, perfect for fans of The Push especially. I would love for people to latch on. There has been some mixed feedback on.
The audiobook itself, people said they wish they would have gone with the print copy. I only read the print copy because that was all that was accessible to me at the time. And this one came to us through Laura Morrow, who wrote Little Movements. Yeah. Was a publicist for Dutton. That's not who she published with. But she was a publicist for Dutton. So after she was on our show, I asked if she would send me her top recommendations for our show for the summer, and she sent Amy's book, it would have never been on my list.
Now, here's a blooper that I've not told anyone. So we have to take a picture of my favorite books when we sell the summer reading guide, which we put on IG and it's pinned forever, basically. Right. And I could not find this book. Okay. There we get so many books sent to us.
And it got chaotic. And I tried to be organized like I have a set stack, but my family had been taking mailings and putting them places. And I don't know at all where this book is. To this day, I do not know. It is somewhere in our house, but I do not know where it is. And I messaged Laura to see if she would send me another copy of it. There were no more copies to give. They were all handed out according to her. We have no copies for you.
So Laura from her apartment sent me a picture of the spine. She held the book up and took a picture of the spine. And I clipped the spine into that picture. It's like photo like it's like photoshopped over. I don't know how to do anything with like I there's no AI involved. Okay. If you look at it, it looks like a mess. Don't blow it up too big. But I didn't have the book anymore. And so and she was like, good luck, you know.
So sometimes things like that happened. I was like sweating about this book because I'm like, how long because there was no book. So that was like the big hurdle when we were launching the guide.
Symbol
That's funny. Even I didn't know that.
Amy
Yeah. So anyways, this was a really fascinating episode to talk about. She shared how the Hollywood writer strike became her catalyst. It was an unusual season of storytelling for her. She was able to just do something solely for herself instead of what she was doing. And she is an endlessly fascinating person. She is. She was inspired by this because she wrote a piece on Stormy Daniels, for Vogue. And Stormy Daniels, that really informed this book because the roommate that disappeared is someone who had got into the same kind of work.
And so she really added and humanized this experience. She, I think in her bio on IG, you can see what lately she has written about for New York Times, but she does profile rather controversial figures in pop culture and in big moments here in the US. And, whether you agree with them or not, I really enjoy seeing her lens through which she tells her stories.
Symbol
Definitely. Our favorite reader response is “Amy, I just finished this book and listened to your interview with Amy. This is also my favorite thriller of the year. I hope more people find it. It was so smart and well done, and the reveals were wow, so thrilling. I thought the ending was shocking, but just right. I need more books like this. Love the whole experience.”
Amy
I keep pushing and pushing. I really hope more people will pick it up. As you know, I am the patron saint of this book. The only book I'm the patron saint of.
Symbol
No, she said you were the patron saint of debut novels.
Amy
Well, she crowned it. So we want to keep loving on Amy. And she's also someone who, I was really nervous about interviewing. And I was very like, that was another drenched sweat day of will we be able to pull it off?
I think one thing that has been surprising about this process is journalists are very hard to interview.
Symbol
They aren’t used to being on the other side.
Amy
They are not used to talking about themselves. And I really respect her from a craft level perspective. I wanna be someone that you not that I'm your colleague, but that you consider that I really respect your work.
And so I really tried to do that when she came on and also to show up for Laura and all the people that had to be involved. I mean, there were like six or seven people involved on that, making sure that all of that came together and gelled. So I'm grateful and I was really proud of the interview that we captured.
Symbol
I thought it was fabulous.
Amy
So then we have Thao Thai, The Seekers of Deer Creek.
Escape into a Tale of Two Estranged Sisters brought together after their family's death, who discover an intriguing link to an elusive surrealist painter that forever alters their world and legacy. It's a moving literary fiction novel with lots of plot and heart. Thao is truly one of the most memorable guests, I think, that we've had in the history of the show. I think she is one of the most eloquent, interesting people.
With the best vocabulary. She just like expands my world. Anytime she tells a story, I'm transported somewhere. And I think that what she brought to this one was a masterclass level of craft discussion on writing something that's true to you and how much she wrestled with the process of writing a book.
And just her experience too with being part of Jenna's book club and all of that was really fascinating. It was amazing. I just loved I liked the inside peek. Yeah. I thought that this book was so good and it was such a great time to be back with her.
Symbol
Agreed. Megan Church, of all people, left a little nice little review that says, “Love this conversation so much. And yes, story matters so much more than hook. Can't wait for readers to get their hands on Thao's absolutely beautiful book.”
Amy
Since Megan's like one of my oldest friends, she texts me after every show and like gives me her impression. And it's been very fun because she picked up the foursome, had no intention of reading that book. And then we were on a thread for like a whole day about this book and what she garnered from it and how impressed she was by that story. And so I just appreciate that, as much as I love Megan's work, Megan loves the work here and sees it and and also gives us great information on other guests we should consider. And so it's really kind of her to extend to continue to extend that olive branch to other writers.
Okay. And then the last book that we have is The Half-Life by Rachel Beanland, which is a historical fiction, literary fiction pick. Explore the sun-soaked 1970s when a newlywed finds herself marooned on a remote Italian island, as her husband's work aboard a nuclear-powered submarine stirs tension in their tight-knit community. She embraces a bold journey of self-discovery from sultry escapades to immersive Italian lessons.
So I loved this book. It was such a departure, I think, from some of her other books, which are more like a family drama or like, I don't know. I just wasn't expecting a steamy beach read in the story, and it surprised me in all the best ways. I think this book is perfect for fans of City of Girls because I know you've been reading it because
Symbol
I just read it. Audiobook. Fabulous.
Amy
This is a narrator who's like very dishy and she's telling you about her life to an undisclosed recipient, which is the same premise of City of Girls. So we don't know until the very end of Rachel's story who the recipient of all this juicy, scandalous information is, which is the conceit of the novel, according to Rachel. That's the whole idea. Like, yes, would anyone send a 500-page letter, right? Same thing with Elizabeth Gilbert's book, where you're like, who is telling someone that's undisclosed, like all of this information, but that's the conceit of the story. And so that's what she does in this book.
I loved learning about her family life, about how this was so informed by her father's work and their time being there on this island. It just made me think about American exceptionalism and a lot of other themes that I had not thought about. And again, I think this book is pretty new. So we don't have a ton of feedback on this book. But I just want to say that I hope that more people will pick it up. And it was such a joy to talk through her discussion around the historical fiction genre.
She was another person who was really high level on a craft level. And I think that's one of the best parts of our show.
Symbol
I agree. Although one of my favorite parts of our show is when you're finished interviewing someone and you're telling them why you're so proud of them. And so I would like to take this particular moment to say why we are so proud of you. And I'm gonna let the authors speak for all of us. by playing some behind the scenes notes that I've put together from different guests.
Clips from previous Book Gang guests:
Laurie Frankel
I'm so grateful to talk to people. And you know when that people are interested in talking about what I'm talking about thrills me. It's I mean, it's like you get to be in in this community of of geekery where everybody wants to talk about books on I'm like over the moon, basically.
Molly Fader
Amy, I you do such a great job. I love your reviews and I love chatting with you and thanks for having me back.
Thao Thai
Same here, Amy. I can't tell you how how good it is to be around somebody who
who loves books and authors and readers as much as you do, but also somebody who can just talk so so precisely about the industry at large. I think you and I have very similar sensibilities and we kinda look at the world in the same way. And so it just feels really nice to have that that kindred energy between us. and thank you for all your kind words.
Sarah Damoff
Absolutely. I love I was so excited to return because like it's a wonderful experience talking with you about The Bright Years and now the same thing today for The Burning Side. So thank you for all your support, all the thought and heart that goes into what you're doing, talking to authors and connecting read readers with books. It's a gift to me and to so many people. So thank you for your work.
Sam Wachman
Fantastic. so glad to be stuck with you. This has been such a wonderful, yeah, conversation and and I'm I'm so grateful. Yeah. Thank you.
Gill Paul
Thank you so much though, Amy. You just had the best questions and it's been really, really good fun talking to you.
Christina Baker Kline
You’re a great interviewer, I have to say. Thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. This is my new thing. So this is my midlife crisis project. You're so good. I c I mean, honestly, this is one of the best interviews I've ever had. You're really you're really good. my gosh, you're gonna make me cry you. I don't know if you're reading the questions because it doesn't seem like it at all. You are so natural. Oh my gosh, that is so kind. Thank you so much. This is this is really making me stretch and grow. Like and I never want it to feel like a burden when people come. I'm sure a lot of stuff like this it it feels so exhausting and that someone's not really tuned in. So I really study people's work and I want them to feel like I love and respect the work that they do. Yeah, it's amazing. It really comes across. It feels it feels like that.
Kayla Rae Whitaker
Seriously, this book is incredible. It's not you. You're a wonderful interviewer. Like this is this is amazing. So it's yeah, so you make it look easy and it's not easy. It's it's this is this is wonderful. So I'm just really proud when I hear from someone like you who's read it and and enjoyed it. So thank you. And also like you're busy, you have a million books to read. So thank you. I really appreciate it.
Laurie Frankel
Thank you so much. Thank you so I mean, me too. I feel exactly the same way. It's such a good conversation. and I am grateful from the bottom of my heart to you for doing this. Really for everybody. but I mean, since here I am, I'm I am personally really, really grateful to you for doing this. And this is the these are dream conversations we are having.
Amy
So I did not know about this project at all. I did see on my email that a whole bunch of things were being exported and I was very confused. I was like, what is she doing? So thank you for saying that. Thank you for I don't I can't imagine how long it took to piece together all these little
Symbol
It was so worth it for you.
Amy
Well, that was really nice. And yeah, this is the greatest gift. Yeah. Thank you.
Symbol
You're welcome.
Amy
Well, I think that's it. I just want to remind people that if you have found any joy or comfort or inspiration in this year's summer lineup and the stories that we've shared here, I do hope you that you will consider joining our Patreon community. This show is truly a labor of love, especially in a season where my husband is out of work and I'm spending time with my mom in hospice.
Your $5 pledge means more to me now than it has ever been to our family. And we also offer an opportunity to give a one-time donation through Buy Me a Coffee. Both of those things are linked at the top of our show notes today. That helps us keep the independent podcast going. It takes out the logistics of offering commercials, which no one likes.
And it gives us an opportunity to also feature authors and conversations that we would never get to have if you did not make that possible. So thank you especially to our patrons. You are incredible in so many ways. Thank you for choosing human creators in a world that's been turned upside down by AI. And we hope that you have enjoyed this behind the scenes.
Thank you guys so much for listening.
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