Molly Fader joins us to discuss Lady X, her soapy and subversive 1970s historical novel blending female-driven mystery, revenge, and legacy.
Molly Fader joins us to discuss Lady X, her soapy and subversive 1970s historical novel blending female-driven mystery, revenge, and legacy.
This week on Book Gang, I’m thrilled to welcome returning guest Molly Fader, an acclaimed voice in historical fiction and romance, for a deep-dive conversation about her latest soapy novel, Lady X. It blends the revenge vibes of The Change with the emotional punch of Husbands & Lovers.
Readers meet Margot, whose husband’s humiliating scandal sends her back to her childhood home just as her mother’s memory fades. An attic discovery—a photo linking her mother to the infamous 1970s vigilante group Lady X—launches Margot and her daughter into a cross-generational mystery that’s as much about rage and legacy as it is about revenge.
With wicked graffiti, oodles of secrets, and a freshly fierce examination of what women inherit when they stop apologizing, we unbox Molly’s real-life inspiration, reading life, and the demands of a mixed-media reading experience.
In this thought-provoking conversation, we discuss:
📚 Inspiration & Crafting Mythic Narratives: Molly discusses the mythic question at the heart of Lady X: What if the woman your family dismissed was once the most feared vigilante in New York? She shares how the story’s seeds were planted, the journey from idea to page, and the creative decisions behind her use of mixed media—such as newspaper clippings—to build a larger-than-life legend.
📚 Why the 1970s Was the Perfect Era: Molly reflects on the research behind her 1970s timeline, the echoes of contemporary issues, and the need for solidarity when systems fail to protect women. We gossip about what other books have gotten right or wrong about capturing this era, and the current publishing trends exploring it.
📚 Revenge, Righteous Anger, and Nuance: We explore how Lady X balances the satisfaction of revenge fiction with the nuanced portrayal of both women and men, the real-life heroes who inspired the story, and the conversations Molly hopes book clubs will have about the ongoing fight for women’s voices.
BONUS BOOK LIST: 12 “Good For Her” Books- Admittedly, this is a subgenre of my own creation, as we celebrate stories where women unapologetically take up space, seize their power, and, when necessary, deliver a well-deserved comeuppance. A variety pack of fun is available to browse for free today. Patrons will receive a printable book list and a bonus spoiler conversation with Molly today.
Meet Molly Fader
Molly Fader is the author of The McAvoy Sisters Book of Secrets, The Bitter and Sweet of Cherry Season and The Sunshine Girls. The Sunshine Girls is one of Library Reads and Amazon Editor's Ten Best Books of December. Under the name Molly O'Keefe she is the award-winning and USA Today Bestselling author of contemporary romance. Lady X hits store shelves on July 14th and is available to pre-order now.
NEW BOOK LIST: 12 “Good For Her” Books- Flip some tables with me through these stories that center female revenge, joy, and autonomy in one delicious stack (FREE TO BROWSE ON PATREON THIS WEEK)
SUPPORT OUR FAMILY: Download the 2026 Summer Reading Guide (57-Pages of Bookish Fun With 70 Tried-and-True Recommendations): http://buymeacoffee.com/bookgangpodcast/e/535779
SUPPORT OUR FAMILY: Join the Book Gang- patreon.com/momadvice
2026 MomAdvice Book Club Books (All 12 Selections)
Daughters of Shandong by Eve J. Chung
Inside the Creation of Daughters of Shandong with Eve J. Chung (Book Gang Podcast)
The Change by Kirsten Miller
Husbands and Lovers by Beatriz Williams
Lady X by Molly Fader
The Sunshine Girls by Molly Fader
The Magic of Old Hollywood Books with Molly Fader (Book Gang Podcast)
Joshilyn Jackson, Missing Sisters & The Meadowlyn
Day Drinking with Joshilyn Jackson
Missing Sister by Joshilyn Jackson
The Final Revival of Opal & Nev by Dawn Walton
Daisy Jones & The Six by Taylor Jenkins Reid
The Wife Upstairs by Rachel Hawkins
The Villa by Rachel Hawkins
The Wedding People by Alison Espach
Big Little Lies by Liane Moriarty
Bad Sisters by Rebecca Chance
The Correspondent by Virginia Evans
The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon
The Seekers of Deer Creek by Thao Thai
One’s Company by Ashley Hutson
Inside One’s Company: Obsession, Isolation and Talking with Ashley Hutson (Podcast)
Eleanor Oliphant is Completely Fine by Gail Honeyman
The Women by Kristin Hannah
The Half Life by Rachel Beanland
A Hymn to Life by Giséle Pelicot
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Book Gang Podcast Transcript:
Molly Fader (00:00)
Hi, I'm Molly Fader and I'm here to talk about Lady X.
Amy’s Warm Intro:
Hey, Book Gang! It’s always a good day when Molly Fader returns to our book stack. Her soapy historical fiction novels have quickly become my go-to summer reading treats, and this latest story is no exception—it artfully blends the revenge fun of The Change with the Hollywood heart of Husbands & Lovers. In Lady X, Margot is married to a beloved Hollywood star whose midlife crisis leads to a string of sexting scandals. The fallout not only damages his reputation but also threatens the brand and business Margot has worked so hard to build.
With her mother now in a memory care facility, Margot returns to a childhood home that feels both familiar and changed. One attic afternoon, she discovers an unexpected photograph of her mother, snapped outside a spray-painting job orchestrated by the vigilante group Lady X in the 1970s. Unable to get answers from her mother, Margot turns the mystery into a bonding adventure with her daughter, even as their family’s old dreams slip quietly into the past.
The novel’s dual timeline format lets us dig into the legendary Ginger’s life and those of her two roommates, each navigating the trauma of verbal and sexual abuse at work. Corrupt cops only add to their struggles—after all, if there are no bruises, who’s to say a crime even occurred?
After yet another infuriating encounter, what starts as a cheeky Banksy-style graffiti job—complete with “eggplant” spray paint motifs—quickly spirals into something far more significant, and perhaps even deadly, as these women fight to reclaim their stories.
What could have been pure escapism instead transforms into a compelling conversation about rage, legacy, and the ways women protect one another when the world won’t. Throughout the novel, newspaper clippings and commentary on Lady X add texture and urgency, such as: “For every woman who had been harassed, assaulted, raped, and silenced, Lady X was a goddamn hero. And for every man who targeted women, Lady X was a real problem.”
Across both timelines, these women are forced to take ownership of their stories in deeply satisfying ways. The result is a novel that sparks thoughtful conversations about what women truly inherit when they finally stop apologizing. In this moment, we need more books like this. Fader’s prose opens a revolutionary new world you can fall into effortlessly, and I can’t wait to unpack her writing process on this exciting new project.
To celebrate Molly’s novel, I’ve curated a fabulous new book list—available to browse for free on Patreon—spotlighting a dozen “Good for Her” books to add to your stack. Join me in flipping some tables through stories that center female revenge, joy, and autonomy. Patrons also receive a printable list, five bonus book ideas, and a spoiler-filled chat with Molly in their inbox today.
If you’re new here, hi! I’m Amy Allen Clark, the voice behind the Book Gang podcast, and I’m so happy to have you. This show celebrates debuts, backlist favorites, and under-the-radar book gems. As I continue my full immersion in the 2026 Summer Reading Guide, I’m thrilled to shine a spotlight on some of my favorite picks from this year’s selections, like this one!
This special guide is available for purchase, featuring a handpicked collection of 70 titles—upcoming releases, buzzy debuts, and new-to-me backlist treasures—spread across 57 pages to help you build your perfect summer stack. It’s an instant download for $7, and every purchase helps keep the lights on at Book Gang.
This month’s book club selection is Daughters of Shandong by Eve J. Chung. Last week, we took a deep dive into Eve’s writing journey and discovered the moving family story behind this gripping historical fiction novel. I’ve been seeing a flood of 5-star reviews from our club members on Goodreads, and it’s been a joy to feature such a talented storyteller and witness how this story is resonating with you. If you missed last week’s show, I’ll be sure to link it for you—and don’t forget, you can join our warm, multigenerational book club on July 30th at 8 PM ET. Membership is just $5 a month, with a 10% discount for annual signups.
Now, let’s meet this week’s guest: Molly Fader is the author of The McAvoy Sisters Book of Secrets, The Bitter and Sweet of Cherry Season, and The Sunshine Girls—which was chosen as one of Library Reads and Amazon Editor’s Ten Best Books of December. Writing as Molly O’Keefe, she’s also an award-winning and USA Today bestselling author of contemporary romance. Lady X, her latest, hits shelves on July 14th and is available for pre-order now.
If you enjoy the show, please consider leaving a review on iTunes—it’s a quick, free way to show your support. And to our patrons: you are the empathetic, empowered vigilantes the world needs more of, championing the arts when it matters most. Thank you for supporting human creators in a world turned upside down by AI. Now, let’s get chatting!
Amy Clark (00:04)
Alright friends, it's been a long time since I talked to Molly, but it feels just like yesterday. It's so funny because I remember at the end of the summer that you came for The Sunshine Girls, we sent out a poll to our readers and asked them, who was your favorite guest of the entire summer? You're kind of a celebrity in our community. I am not kidding. They were like, we love Molly, bring Molly back. I'm like, well, she's got to write me something so that I can bring her back.
Molly Fader (00:22)
I know, and then I took four years off. That's so nice. I'm so delighted to be back. I'm going to modulate my voice out of this like shrieky, delighted. Thank you so much, everybody. I'm delighted to be back.
Amy Clark (00:43)
Yes, and also in case you guys did not know, Molly is quite the pro on the microphone as well, which we did talk about a little bit before we started recording here, but she runs a show called Day Drinking with Authors. And I have to tell you, I've had a great time listening to episodes. And one thing that I find funny, can I tell you what I think is kind of funny? Is that you ask them what they're drinking and everyone's at this stage where they're like, I can't have wine anymore.
Molly Fader (01:17)
I know! It has gotten so sad
Amy Clark (01:18)
They're like, I'm taking my heart medication and I can only have one cup of coffee. And I'm like, I get this because I had to give up my wine as well. So I get it.
Molly Fader (01:29)
I know, it is, it is. When the podcast started, it was during the pandemic and we were drinking and that was just enough time ago, just enough hormones ago and now everybody that I talk to because I do I interview primarily women of a certain age, guess. Can't drink. That's true. I should come up with a different name.
Amy Clark (01:36)
I think it's funny. I love hearing their responses because I'm like, that actually sounds like a great mocktail or something like that. Or they're like, I've already had my cup of coffee, so it's just water now. And I'm like, this is where we're at in life, right? We can only have just a little bit or it's gonna disturb our sleep.
Molly Fader (02:09)
Yeah, ruined for the rest of the day. Ruined.
*Amy Clark (02:14)
Well, I have to ask who has been your favorite guest to talk to?
*Molly Fader (02:15)
Well, in large part because she's one of my favorite authors is Joshilyn Jackson. I love her books and if you go back and listen to my first interview with her and she makes a mean cocktail, like she makes a mean and she drinks it and the first one she got pretty loaded. We both did. I was like, I was thinking as she was talking, was like, is she really saying this stuff? So it's a pretty juicy interview. But yes, she is, and I just had her again to talk about her latest release that is just, have you read it?
Amy Clark (02:55)
I have it on my Kindle, but I have not read it.
Molly Fader (02:57)
It has easily one of the best opening scenes I've read. I, like, again, I've read everything and I love all of her books, but it's like, it's so cinematic and so twisty and so sad. It's great. You're gonna love it.
Amy Clark (03:11)
Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Well, I am cracking up about how the day drinking went a little sideways. We all were doing that probably most of us anyways during the pandemic. So it was a great, great hook, especially during that time. But maybe it needs to be something like Mocktails with Molly.
Well, I'm excited to talk about this book. So Lady X begins with a question that feels almost mythic. What if the woman your family quietly dismissed was once the most feared vigilante in New York? I have to know, what were the seeds for this story?
Molly Fader (03:51)
Well, that's an interesting question. Like it's kind of the same as The Sunshine Girls. It's like what if your mom just isn't the person you thought she was and that's always fascinating to me as a daughter and as a mother like The way that my daughter perceives me and the way that I perceive my mother and how that's changed.
It's kind of endlessly interesting and fascinating to me the way that books work for me is I'll have like a couple of themes, like I need at least two ideas sort of rolling around in my head. And then I'm waiting for the lightning strike moment that makes those all kind of come together in a book. And so for this one, I was walking around, it was post-election. You know, we're watching, we're all of us in real time watching really bad men get away with really bad things. And I'm angry, I'm really, really mad, like a lot of women.
And then at the same time, my daughter, who at the time was in middle school and in the way of middle school girls was being harassed by a middle school boy. And she came to me and I, to my incredible embarrassment, said what my mother said to me, which was, ignore him. And my daughter was like, no, I'm not doing that.
And she and her friends, because it was a group of them, she went and she told the principal and the kid got help. The kid got in trouble, yes, but he got the help that he needed. And the girls were safe in school once again. And I was so embarrassed by my need to, like that need to be nice, right? That need to not make waves, that need to just absorb men's bad behavior and somehow, you know, make it okay.
And I was so shocked by that, that that's what I'd sort of, in that moment, that's what I'd come to, you know, and I consider myself a feminist, I consider myself all these things. So I'm walking around with those two thoughts and then during the pandemic, Taylor Swift releases the Midnight album and the song Vigilante Shit is on it. And that was the lightning strike that suddenly brought it all together. And I thought of this vigilante girl gang in 1977 New York City. And after that, I was off to the races.
Amy Clark (06:09)
I like this because it's like thinking about our programming, right? And how we've been programmed. You know, there are times that I look back on some things that I said to my daughter, like, he likes you, right? Yeah, I know. And it's so ingrained in us. And yet, you know, looking back on some specific moments, I had one particular boy who bullied me and it got really, really traumatic for me. And I still feel like I carry a little bit of that around with me. Why would I tell my daughter the same thing that my parents told me, right? Why would I say, well, he probably likes you? Because that's what my parents said when I came home crying, ripped up tights, you know, getting shoved into pea gravel, you know, ripped open knees, you know, all of those kinds of things. It's because he likes you and no one ever stood up for me. And yet I feel like when I look back on maybe some moments with her, I was kind of using that same language unintentionally of course and it is interesting how this generation is like hey that's not cool like and they also are so good about handling things themselves. I don't know; the self-sufficiency is not something that I had when I was young.
Molly Fader (07:28)
Yeah, I, again, to my great embarrassment and shame, I don't think I gave it to my daughter. In this situation, she got her strength from her friends. And it certainly changed my life and my perspective and the things that I'm saying to her now. Gosh, that instinct is deeply ingrained in us 50-year-old white ladies, right? It really is. It really is.
Amy Clark (07:48)
It is, I know. I admit it too. And I'm sure there are people that are listening that have also had those moments and realized or looked back and been like, why did I, why did I say that? Or how did I lead my child through it? But we're all learning together, right? And I think what your stories do so well is like looking back on the past, what will we change? What will we do differently? And also giving our mothers grace, which is something that I think you only find maybe in your midlife years or when you are navigating those same kind of scenarios and you're like, wow, maybe my mom wasn't so bad.
Molly Fader (08:26)
Yeah, exactly. You know, like everybody's first time around.
Amy Clark (08:31)
Yeah, well I think one thing about this story that, you know, I really appreciate is that we have newspaper clippings, we have commentary, we have all of these other elements that are being mixed in and it feels like a public chorus of voices that are in this mixed media experience. I'd love to hear about crafting that and why that was essential to this story.
Molly Fader (08:55)
Well, I mean, I think obviously for the Who is Lady X to hit, for the girls who are in their family's attic and they find these clippings and they think it might be their mom or their mom might have something to do with it, for it to land, there had to be some lore around it. So I needed this group chorus exactly to sort of create this push-pull, this mythic sort of sense of who she was. And I will tell you, they were the worst.
Amy Clark (09:28)
Was that hard for you? Why?
Molly Fader (09:32)
It was so hard. Why? don't, because I'm not that great? I don't know. Because I bit off more than I could chew? Amy, these are excellent questions.
Amy Clark (09:39)
Okay, so wait, so how did this work then? Did you like feed them in after you had written the story and you're like, that needs a chorus here or it needs a chorus here or you were like building it in real time.
Molly Fader (09:51)
So in my logical brain, I was like, after every chunk that's in the past, I'm going to write something. The interstitial will be about her mythos, right? It'll be an article. It'll be a quote from a politician. It'll be a quote from a person at that time.
And after every time in the present, or vice versa, whatever I just said, it will be a quote about people dissecting Lady X, right? So from the time or dissecting her because I put in some things about, you know, some women's studies courses and podcasts and things like that. So in my mind, that was how that was going to work.
But then I'm also trying to build the mystery of what happened to her. So I couldn't like spill the beans in these interstitials. So then I so I probably had 50 of these things I'd written that got chopped up and moved around and gotten rid of. And so it was just very hard to try to find a way to thread all those needles, if that makes sense.
Amy Clark (10:58)
So it became overwhelming. What would you advise a writer who's thinking about doing that?
Molly Fader (11:03)
Here's what I would say: You're really excited about this idea and it's a great idea. It's a great idea. You should do it. You should do it. It's harder than you think it is, but you need a really, really good reader to tell you when it's not working. And you should know when it's all said and done, you will be unable to read those without thinking they are absolute garbage.
Amy Clark (11:08)
Here we go. Oh my gosh. So a light touch is better than, yeah.
Molly Fader (11:33)
A light touch is better, a light touch is better trust the feedback when it comes. There's a part of this that you will just lose contact with it. It's very hard. It comes back together in the end, but.
Amy Clark (11:45)
Yeah, it's interesting because I just did Opal and Nev, which is an oral history book. I don't know if you ever read that. Okay, and it's amazing on audiobook. And one aspect of that story was that, we're going to look at three different, let's say, news slants with this, right? And it does, at times, it becomes overwhelming. But then you understand the purpose of the assignment is someone saw it this way, someone saw it this way, someone saw it this way, and you are getting all the different kinds of viewpoints. But you know, the lighter touch to those elements sometimes helps the narrative move forward.
Molly Fader (12:25)
It is, you know, something readers, readers are, and I don't know if this is because I came out of romance, but like readers are so smart a reader, you know, you're a reader, the things that really light up our brain are the things that where that the writer is just, just leading us along, you know, like we feel smart. We feel like we're figuring it out in real time, right? Like that's, that's what is so effective when a book is going well. And that is all light touch. That is all just careful, careful touching.
Amy Clark (12:59)
Yeah. Nice and light. Keep it light, people. Okay.
Molly Fader (13:04)
Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. But that book and like you think about something like Daisy Jones yeah, like how that how she did that, like that where it's all I mean, come on.
Amy Clark (13:09)
Yeah, but the thing is about Daisy Jones and you know I think it almost polluted the water for everyone after because it's like, well, it's not like Daisy Jones or whatever. And everyone wants to use that as a comp for anything with these kinds of mixed media experiences. There is one Daisy Jones, and then there are books about music or there are other things that have those types of threads. And I think sometimes we're forcing authors into these pigeonholes with their, you know, their work that they don't get to have their own time to shine.
Opal and Nev being one of the books that everyone kept saying well it's not Daisy Jones and The Six or whatever and I'm like but that's not what it was supposed to be it's supposed to be something else entirely so you know those comps especially with mixed media experiences can really I think hinder authors because we're immediately our mind is transported to a specific piece of literature.
Molly Fader (13:55)
Right, right, and I mean, it's what happens when you're the first one and you do it so well. mean, she obviously wasn't the first one, but when you break the mold, right? Like, you know, yeah. But another author who I love that does it so well is Rachel Hawkins. Have you read Rachel, The Wife Upstairs, The Villa?
The Villa I listened to on audiobook and I thought she did that. I mean, talk about a light touch and like it kept kind of going back and forth. She just led you right to the end. Like with you and you're like, I'm not sure it could, you know, this anything could be true at this point. I thought she's another author who does it really well.
Amy Clark (14:43)
Yeah. And these are so fun on audiobooks. Do you know anything about what's happening with your audiobook on this?
Molly Fader (14:52)
Yes, it's Helen Laser who did The Wedding People. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I feel really, I'm thrilled, thrilled, thrilled,
Amy Clark (14:56)
I love her. Yes. Ooh, that's a good score. Yeah, she's gonna do great with it. Well, other than this mixed media experience, what has this book been teaching you?
Molly Fader (15:09)
You know, it's funny. I'm going to tell you about the sort of behind the scenes process of this book coming to public. Yeah. So I, like I said, I came out of romance and I've had the same agent, my, almost my entire career. I love this agent. I had the idea for Lady X and I sent it to her and she was like, I just don't feel this.
And I was like, wow. What do you mean? Like, I feel this so much. And she was like, I think this is where we have to part ways. I know. And she was like, go think about it for a week, and then we'll talk again. And so I thought about it for a week, and it was like, what do I trust more right now? This book that I really, really, really did passionately love. And it was just so alive in my head. So we get back on the phone and I was like, I think you're right. And I burst into tears and I told her I loved her. The epitome of unprofessional. I mean, we're still, you know, I adore her. I feel so, and in the end I'm incredibly grateful for her.
So then I have to go into the process of querying for a new agent, which is for every single person who's ever gonna do it or has done it, it's so humbling. It's so, you send 25 emails out into the world and five get back to you and three are no thank you. You know what I mean? So, and it's really interesting.
The first lesson it taught me was like, trust your ideas. Like if you really feel passionate about trust your ideas. And then, so I start this process. And in the process of writing the query letter, you kind of want that big sexy line, that big like Lady X what this is. And I'm terrible at that line. You know, give me 90,000 words to tell you what my book is. Don't give me. So I have really smart writer friends and I asked them for help and they helped me change it.
And once I changed that line, and I got over myself and like how hard it was in my like, it felt so commercial and disingenuous and strange. And I got over that and I had, you know, 10 agents who were like, I'd love to talk. Yeah, like it really, really changed the game. So then I could…
Amy Clark (17:45)
What was the line, do you know? What was the line? I want the line.
Molly Fader (17:47)
I can find it real quick. Can I take, can I take a second to find it?
Amy Clark (17:50)
Yeah. Yeah, take a second to find it. I want it. Jeez, this host makes you do homework
Molly Fader (17:57)
No, no, you know, I kind of felt like I should get it anyway and I didn't
Amy Clark (18:00)
Yeah, yeah, you need to tell us that line.
Molly Fader (18:03)
Okay, ready?
Amy Clark (18:04)
Yep, I'm ready.
Molly Fader (18:06)
“In the vein of Big Little Lies and Bad Sisters, three friends in 1979 New York City take matters into their own hands when the crimes against them go unpunished. But they are soon in over their heads when the dangerous past of one of the friends catches up with all of them. In 2023, a woman whose fabulous life has crumbled around her finds out her mother was a part of that vigilante girl gang and she is inspired to burn down the lies she was living to fight for the life she always wanted.”
Amy Clark (18:30)
Ooh, okay, that's what sold it. Amazing. So then you have like a, you have an embarrassment of riches. You have 12 people who get back to you. How do you select?
Molly Fader (18:34)
That is what sold it. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So it was a bunch of phone calls. It was a bunch of meetings. And I had a dream agent and the dream agent got back to me and she's like, I really like this, but my catalog is full. We've just hired a new agent. Would you like to talk to her? And I was like, yeah, okay, Dream Agent, I'll do whatever you say.
And then I talked to her and she was amazing and delightful and hungry and younger. My other agent was, I think, a little bit older than me. I mean, she was older than me. And every other agent that I was talking to was a woman around my age. And I thought, if I'm going into this second chapter of my career, I want a really different perspective in my ear. And so yeah, so Sophie Cudd from The Book Group was the person I ended up matching with.
Amy Clark (19:38)
I love this for you. Did you do anything special to celebrate once you had everything all ironed out? Tell me about the book deal day and all that.
Molly Fader (19:45)
So the book, so then, okay, well, this is another funny story. So then she, so she's like, I think we should write the whole book. We, you should write the whole book. And I was like, okay, that's a great idea because this, it's a different book. It's a harder book. I got these interstitials. I don't know what I'm doing with.
So I write the whole book. She does a couple of rounds of edits. Her edits are fantastic. And then we put together that list. And in my romance career, I had worked with Shawna Summers from Ballantine. And I adore, she's an amazing editor. And I was like, put Shawna Summers on the list. And also I live in Canada and Penguin Random House Canada, an editor there, Bhavna, she and I had had coffee one day and she was like, you know, the next time you send out a book, put me on the list. So Sophie's making this list and I'm like, put these two on there. I mean, we'll just see, like, I don't know. And Bhavna got back to us first, like kicked open the door.
And so we sold the Canadian rights first. And then, I had a couple of conversations with different editors, one of whom was Shawna. And then the day comes around where Sophie's like Molly, Shawna's gonna make an offer today. And I was like, okay, all day long. I'm like, okay. Like, checking my phone, checking my emails. Just, it's one of those relentless days. Like, so high stress, I should have just turned my phone off and gone for a walk, but no. And then at like 3:30 in the afternoon, I go downstairs and my son's in the kitchen and he's like, what's wrong? And I was like, it was just, I thought it was going to be this kind of day. And it wasn't, it's no big deal as I like get a pint of ice cream. And I go upstairs and Sophie had texted. It was like, can I call you? I was like, yeah. So yeah. And it just couldn't have worked out and it couldn't have worked out better.
And because we had written the full book, Shauna and Bhavna worked together with the next set of edits and we went through a couple of rounds just sort of really making things sharper and clearer. And then there was one more round with a very major change and it was such a good change. I was like, of course, let's do this. And here we are.
Amy Clark (21:54)
That's awesome. Well I love hearing about that. You know we've been asking our writers this summer who are more seasoned, you know, this is not referring to age by the way, it just means that you have more than one book. I know you're dying.
Molly Fader (22:11)
I almost spit my coffee.
Amy Clark (22:14)
Molly, I'm not referring to your age. I am referring to the fact that you have been in publishing for a while and you have witnessed all the things that are happening right now. What do you think is happening in publishing? Do you have any feelings or what has really dramatically changed for you as a writer that you are seeing happening in publishing? For people who are considering this career, what are you seeing right now?
Molly Fader (22:16)
So I think what's really exciting, I mean, we can curse TikTok all we want, but it has created a new renaissance of reading and publishers who I felt like, particularly in like romance and genre fiction, who were kind of like a step behind as self-publishing and independent publishing took the world by storm. Publishers have jumped into this space. And the really exciting thing is independent bookstores have jumped into this space. and libraries, because independent publishers are super smart and make sure that their books can get into libraries.
It just feels like there's a real resurgence of reading and who's reading and what they're reading and I find all of that really, really exciting. Does that? How about you? What do you think?
Amy Clark (23:29)
Good. Yes, that's wonderful. What do I think? I love the art of how we're sharing books. I think candidly, I wish we could slow down and enjoy things a little bit more. Even myself. I do feel like, you know, I used to have a pace of like 100 books a year, which I thought was exceptional. And then I found out in my book club, I read the least of, and so that was very fascinating to me, but also, I feel a responsibility as someone who reviews books to not necessarily just read, digest, move on to the next thing. I'm always thinking about who is this book for? Who would I recommend it? What did I feel about it? What worked for me? What didn't work for me? All of these things to me take time to marinate and to, I don't know, to review responsibly. I think it's something that I put maybe a little bit too much eldest daughter energy into. No one cares except me but if I'm going to professionally review something which I think of this space as something like I'm not just someone who's just writing down on my own personal Goodreads account I want to give the same kind of care and love and attention that the author did to the work.
And so I think that it's moving at such a rapid pace that I feel the overwhelm. And I'm also coming out of the thick of summer reading season, which is just like an intense cycle. And I'll get to slowly savor again and enjoy things again. But when I see that, I don't always like, I'm not always looking for the person who's reviewing like 30 books in a month, right? I'm looking for someone who's thoughtfully, intentionally reading.
Molly Fader (25:03)
And you know, it's so interesting. We were talking about like the new releases. When you see a book start to linger, you know, in the zeitgeist, like The Correspondent, right? Like when it's, yeah, like when it really starts to linger, you know that there's something in that book that the public needs, right? Like that the, like that people are responding to with something that is so id and heartfelt and not just, you know, serotonin dopamine level, you know what I mean? Like it's really, really affecting people. That's really interesting right now too.
Like did The Frozen River, remember The Frozen River stuck around? I mean, I loved that book, loved that book. And you just think like, why? Why did that book stick around for so long? you know, and I have my feelings, don't need, but like, well, it's like, I mean, it's a...
Amy Clark (26:13)
What are the feelings, why do you think it stuck around so long?
Molly Fader (26:17)
It's a woman's story. It is a careful, considerate, competent woman's story with a cast of characters where not everything is sewn up, but just provides this very real view of this woman's life. So you get the woman in the time. You get the woman with her husband. This love story with her husband, you get the woman with her kids, and then she is like this village authority, and then you get a mystery, and then you get, like her life is in danger. You know, it just took this really careful, like puzzle piece of like putting together a whole person. And in a lot of books I read, some of that stuff could be extraneous. Do we need a sex scene with the husband? No. Did I enjoy it a lot? I sure did. Do we need the son to be, I think he was mute, right? You know, and his character didn't, did we, sure enjoyed it. You know, like, there was just so much in this woman's life that made her a whole person. That's my take.
Amy Clark (27:14)
Yeah. Yeah, no, I interviewed Thao Thai this morning. Her episode, I think, comes out the next month after yours. She was trying to write a book that wasn't hitting and she realized like, I don't really want to write about this. I'm trying to tap into what sounds like a good hook versus what is a timeless story in which one would want to pick that book up later, right? I think books like The Frozen River and The Correspondent have a timeless nature to them, which is hard to work in and still have like enough plot and character to make it something that people want to pick up because typically I think literary fiction often, not so much plot. We're really focused on character studies and that's to me I don't care. We could like be anywhere like I don't need to know anything about time and space. I can be very insular with my characters. I love character driven stories but most people don't necessarily like that they need enough plot and I think both of these books spoke to character to plot enough that it was not only a successful timeless book but that it's something that you could share as like a reading experience with other people which, you know, with book clubs and running one I know how important it is like there needs to be both plot and character or we lose our readers.
Molly Fader (28:45)
Yeah, it's interesting the book club aspect of it all. You know, you can read a great book that everybody in the book club loved, but nobody's really got anything to say about it versus the book club book that everybody's got something to say about. Like that's, it's an interesting dilemma.
Amy Clark (28:53)
Yeah. I mean, you’ve always got to throw in one book that you know might be a little bit polarizing just to shake up the dice a little bit. Sometimes I like to throw in one, typically a Halloween pic is, you know, where I'm like, let's rattle things up a little bit. You guys are getting too cozy. Let's shake it up.
Molly Fader (29:03)
Yeah, indeed. What was your last Halloween pick?
Amy Clark (29:17)
Well, I would say the last one that really shook the dice a little bit was One's Company. I don't know if you've heard of this book and everyone has already heard about this ad nauseam, but it's this really fascinating book about a woman named Bonnie who wins the lottery and she's gone through something very traumatic and she decides more than anything she wants to live alone and she wants to immerse herself in Three's Company and that's all she wants. And she buys basically a property where she replicates the entire Three’s Company set and she lives there alone and all is well until reality creeps in.
And it was quite polarizing. Bonnie is not a likeable character. She doesn't evolve. You know, she's just this really prickly protagonist. But I loved this book so much because it's like slipping into absolute fantasy and everything feels a little bit unhinged because I mean she's researched it.
And yeah, I got to interview the author, which was very magical because I work for Libby as one of their co-hosts for the app for the library system. And my friend Joe, I got him to read it and he was obsessed and I said, I've never been able to find this author. I don't think she does very many interviews. And he was like, I work for Libby. We will find her. And we got to spend the day with her. And it was incredibly magical because she doesn't really do interviews and she seemed very blown away that people were reading this book. so, you know, it's like one of those that I was like, I know that people won't like this character, but are you willing to go on a journey with me to which we go to the ends of the earth with Bonnie? And it was truly one of the most talked about books I think that we've ever, ever done in the history of our book club.
Molly Fader (31:07)
You think about like Eleanor Oliphant Is Completely Fine. You know, like she was not likable, you know? I mean, yeah, that is fascinating. And it really taps into my early, early love of Three's Company. Yeah, I'll go find this book.
Amy Clark (31:09)
Okay, you gotta read it. gotta, please come back. Please come back to me.
All right, now we need to talk about Lady X though, because that's really why you're here. Even though I could talk to you about books, was like 40 minutes in, you're like, are we gonna hear anything about Lady X? Okay, let's talk about Lady X. All right, so the scandal is what kind of breaks open everything that's happening. Margot's husband. It seems a little familiar. Tell me about why you wanted that to be the kind of male downfall to start the story.
Molly Fader (31:49)
Well, I mean, obviously it's like it's everywhere. It's like you said something like it's almost cliche familiar, right? Like powerful men doing stupid shitty things online to, know, it's good God. But Margot I really wanted Margot to be like, she has all the privilege in the world, right? She's rich, she's white, she has this golden life.
And she's not immune to the disrespect and humiliation that men can lay upon the feet of women, right? She has done what so many women do, which is make her life about their family and his career. And it just, he just destroys that. And what do you do? Like, how do you find yourself again?
So I just really kind of wanted that perspective that, you know, none of us are immune. None of us are safe in a way.
Amy Clark (32:49)
Yeah, and I also loved how you're getting back to the Hollywood theme a little bit.
Molly Fader (32:55)
I mean, it's I'm a sucker for I'm a sucker for E News.
Amy Clark (33:02)
Yeah, I love it. Well, obviously, in this story, Ginger, her mother, is in memory care. So that does create a little bit of a challenge for them because they can't get any answers to the story. So what interests you about making memory itself unreliable in this one?
Molly Fader (33:16)
Well, I mean, again, it kind of comes back to that. Like, we never know our parents, and our perspective on our childhoods is so different than their perspective on our childhoods. And liked the idea that, you know, her current life is being ripped away, and with the finding of this, of these newspaper articles, that her childhood may be ripped away.
Obviously it's a device to have her mom in memory care, but as we're all like in this sandwich generation.
Amy Clark (33:55)
Yeah, I was thinking like I feel like so many writers right now are working through this in their stories. Romance, I'm seeing it in romance, I'm seeing it in literary fiction, I'm seeing in contemporary fiction where one of the characters has dementia. This is almost like almost every book lately I've been reading has been exploring it. I could truly make a book list that's just specifically about that.
Molly Fader (34:21)
Yeah. The saddest book list. The most depressing. Yeah.
Amy Clark (34:24)
I know, but you know what, I actually like, I always am like, now I'm scanning for it, you know, as we're dealing with some family members that are struggling with that. It can be very triggering to read about. In this case, I just want to say that it's got a light touch to it. It's not like we're down the tunnel with her and she just doesn't have her memories to really tap into.
Molly Fader (34:41)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she is safe, she's well cared for, she's, you know, I mean, I'm 50 years old, I have a teenager and 84 year old parents, you know, it's, yeah, my parents are luckily in great health, but we're watching it happen.
Amy Clark (34:54)
That's a lot, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's interesting to me because the 1970s is having a moment in literature as well. Like, all of sudden I have all these books in the 1970s, which is very, very fun. Why that era?
Molly Fader (35:15)
So sexy. Did you read The Women? Kristin Hannah's The Women? Yeah. So my mom is a part of a book club and they read The Women and we had a conversation about it. And I don't think it's Kristin Hannah's best book, but I loved. I did not think it was her best. You did?
Amy Clark (35:17)
No, no, no, I did not like this book. I'm sorry. I have a lot of problems with this book. I don't know if I've ever talked about that. I loved Julia Whelan's performance on this book. I thought her audio book was okay. I thought she did an exceptional job on it. I, I have this feeling about, about it getting very heavy handed where it feels almost like an urban outfitters like where we're like tab soda, tab soda. Or the outfits or like what the peasant dress like I'm like, okay, we're getting a little bit too hung up on creating the atmosphere of what the 1970s is versus just letting the characters like live in the 1970s where it doesn't feel like it's like almost like a call out to the research that had been done behind the scenes. And I don't need so much of that.
And also it had a lot of soap opera twists and I'm not a big fan of them unless they're really well developed. What about you? These were Days of Our Lives twists. Me. Yes, there were too many people coming back that were like, I'm not gonna go into it, but it's like, okay, the first one I was like, I don't know. But then the second one I was like, okay, I'm done. Like, this is not a book for me.
Molly Fader (36:31)
There were like two, there were like, I would say two too many twists. Agree. Yeah, it really was. It really was. Come on.
But for the first part of it and the Vietnam part, great to me, was fascinating to me. And I really loved it. And so I was talking to my mom about it and my mom did not like it. And she was like, oh, Molly, it told us nothing new. And I was like, well, it told you nothing new because you lived that time period. Talking about the Vietnam War and everybody's sort of relationship to it, it's like World War II fiction, right? Like people didn't just come home and start talking about the Vietnam War. And my parents, both of whom had never gone but had lost people. Like it wasn't something that, so it just felt brand new.
I grew up watching Vietnam movies and TV shows, but this felt informed, it felt well-rounded, it felt like a real experience, the first part of that book, and it really, really moved me and affected me. I thought the research around that section was incredible and she was like, I was there. Not interesting. Yeah, ho-hum. Ho-hum.
And I feel like what we're seeing now is younger readers ourselves, as people who were very young in the 70s, it is so nostalgic. It is so touching. Part of a childhood that feels radically different than the current life we're living because of technology and AI and phones and like, it's a period of time that feels like, might as well be Little House on the Prairie. know I mean? You know? And we lived it, so we have a nostalgia for it. Like, I don't know, I just, I think that's a large part of it.
Amy Clark (38:30)
Right, it's true though. I guess the thing that has struck me because, I was born in 1978, so I didn't necessarily have that, but my dad served. He was supposed to go to the Vietnam War, but he served in a different capacity, and ended up not having to go. But so much of that, I think and why I think it's hitting so hard right now is that there are so many echoes of resistance, the protesting, all of the things like people in charge, you know, all of that.
But I didn't know that because I didn't grow up in that. So it kind of like hit me. Rachel Beanland wrote The Half-Life, which is set in the 1970s. And my is that a Molly book, my goodness. it's not. It's not out yet.
Molly Fader (39:04)
Really? It's not out yet. It's not out. Yeah, it's coming up. Yeah, I've got it on my list.
Amy Clark (39:26)
Yeah, it's it's really really beautiful but it's like it's a like a Judy Blume sexual awakening kind of story because she's never been with anyone before and she ends up like getting in a fast relationship with someone who is serving and he's serving in this little Italian island and when they arrive there she doesn't realize like she's escaping the Vietnam War and everything but she's throwing herself into a brand new situation where they don't want them there. And it's because they're doing like nuclear waste in their water kind of thing. We're gonna put a nuclear sub in your waters; have a US establishment there. And she said something about, you know, wanting to address American exceptionalism. And I was like, what? Like, why did I not think that this happened in another time? And I'm reading through like what people are angry about or what they're dealing with. And I do think I feel like we're having a mirror moment right now. Do you think that?
Molly Fader (40:31)
Yeah. Yeah, totally, totally. mean, gas prices, you know, like, you know, this threat of like, yeah, yes, this threat of nuclear. Yeah, we're absolutely I feel like it's the same that that you know, the research that I did for Lady X around the, know, The Women's movement and the you know, the first women's march in, you know, 1970s for equality, like it was 1970. You know, like we've been here before, which is awful. We're back to the time before Roe v. Wade. know, like it's all repeating itself. Yeah, it feels that way for sure.
Amy Clark (40:57)
Right. How long did the research process then take? What were you surprised by? What surprised you most out of this research?
Molly Fader (41:15)
Well, I shifted it to ‘77 because of The Son of Sam, because I needed a reason why the Lady X stuff wouldn't be the biggest story of the time. And I was also like, I read something about how people were still being murdered, women were still being raped, there was still sexual assault, there was major, major crime happening in that city, but every newspaper was screaming at the top of their lungs about Son of Sam.
So it feels a bit like a mirror to right now again, where like the real stories are not being told, not that the victims of this Son of Sam weren't valid and important and we shouldn't tell those stories, but there was a whole lot of other stuff going on. And instead this, you journalist is walking around asking women if, you know, they're scared to be brunettes. You like it's, you know, like it just became this very sensational thing. And I thought that was a really interesting mirror. I mean, there's a moment in the book where Faye's like, I want to go see what this guy's all about because he's not the worst thing in the city. And I thought that was kind of interesting
Amy Clark (42:10)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I kept thinking about one line in your story. It says, “for every woman who had been harassed, assaulted, raped, and silenced, Lady X was a goddamn hero”. And I was thinking, who do you think is our Lady X right now?
Molly Fader (42:40)
I mean, Giséle Pelicot, the French woman who wrote the book after finding out her husband had drugged her, you know, the way that she took no shame , you know. I'm, you know, like just so powerful. I think AOC, right? Like she's really leading some serious fucking charges that are very exciting. You know, you can't think about, you know, the Me Too movement, you know, Tarana Burke. Like there's just a, there's a lot of them right now. You know, there really are. We just need to let them get to the podium.
Amy Clark (43:19)
Yeah, I agree. Well, one thing that I struggle with with revenge fiction, and this is me as a very picky reader, is that it can be difficult to not villainize all men, right? And I think it would be very easy to flatten everyone into a villain that's involved in these kinds of books. And I want to talk about how you wanted to balance that as far as character development.
Molly Fader (43:20)
Well, listen, living within a really violent patriarchy, but we all know men who are fighting the fight side by side, right? So it's just a matter of making sure that those men are seen in the book. I feel like I was never in danger of every man.
It was not like every man was bad. I think I was. There were a couple of scenes that got trimmed because I was trying to show, you know, there were a couple of scenes where I was just trying to show not all men, right? And it just wasn't, you know, it wasn't necessary. I felt it was not hard to do. You know, it was not hard to do because there are really good men.
Amy Clark (44:19)
Yeah, right. Okay, if a book club picks this book for their book club, what would you like to see them discussing?
Molly Fader (44:33)
You know, I read that question before we started talking and obviously like the question of what are we doing to stop our own oppression from the, what are we doing to stop that? So like the niceness scale, right? Like how are we overcoming what we have been taught? And there's a lot of women who don't have that problem. Like it's incredible, they don't have that problem. But if for those of us who do, what are we doing to not sort of pass that on?
I mean, I have this scene in the book where Ginger tries to get her friend, Faye, a job and doesn't tell Faye what she's going into with this interview. And because that's just part of the job, that's just this thing that happens. And then she kind of realizes that and goes to course correct. And then there's a scene later on in the book where another woman is trying to get her friend a job and that woman's just like, what is happening? Why couldn't you tell me? What bullshit is this?
Let's lean in towards what bullshit is this, right? And I think those talking about those moments that we're embarrassed of that like what I said to my daughter, you know, takes the pressure off. We've all made mistakes, right? We can't, it's hard to be a good feminist all the time, right? Like it's hard to fight the fight all the time and we make mistakes and I think we can own that and still keep fighting for a better day.
Amy Clark (46:16)
Totally and not be complacent, you know? I think that we're getting to that point where we're so fatigued and it's legitimate. Like it's frankly exhausting right now to do that, but also, especially as two white women, what can we do to lend the microphone or support the causes or lift up the people that are getting thrown away right now, frankly, by this administration. And I think it's just a real cult, you know, what can we do? And I think book clubs would also be a very fruitful conversation. Like what are you doing right now in defiance of this?
Molly Fader (46:43)
Right? Right, Yeah, and just like, you know, being aware of the spaces that we're in that are all white or that are all privileged or are all, you know, like how are we living our lives in a way that is more authentic, you know, trying to be more authentic, trying to be more aware, trying to be more helpful. And like you said, share the microphone, give the microphone, give space, make room, all of that stuff.
Amy Clark (47:24)
Well, what are you doing next? Are you taking a break now that you finally sold this book? Are you moving on forward with this same person? Like what's happening?
Molly Fader (47:33)
So my next book is set in the 80s. Yeah, yeah, get your, get your. Yeah, set in the 80s, it's set in Nashville and it's about women and ambition and three women who are covering up a dangerous, deadly secret.
Amy Clark (47:41)
Now that's an era I know well. You got me. Molly, we’ll get you back here. We always end the show the same way, asking you what you're feeling proud of, whether it's with this project or life in general. And I just get to tell you, I'm so happy. It doesn't feel like it's been years since I talked to you. You hopped on and I was like, there's my old friend Molly. Like I'm so happy she's back. This is such an absolute treat.
And I'm excited for anyone who is a patron. We get to talk to Molly about the back half of her book. So definitely throw in the $5. It keeps us commercial free, keeps you know space of to writers like Molly, but what are you feeling proud of right now?
Molly Fader (48:32)
Listen, I am proud of this book. I'm very proud of this book and I'm proud of the fact that I believed in it I could have stopped, right? And that I worked hard and sort of pushed past some like mental barriers and took criticism and tried to grow. I'm very proud of that. And I'm proud of my daughter for not listening to me. Heck yeah.
Amy Clark (48:58)
Heck yeah, we are raising up such strong women and I feel so lucky that I get to support and champion this book and I'm so proud of you for sticking to your guns. We all benefit when you do so.
Molly Fader (49:10)
Amy, you do such a great job. I love your reviews and I love chatting with you and thanks for having me back.
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